Debt collectors chasing me for Foreign Property Maintenance debt.

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Claff58

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Hi,
hopefully someone can lead me on the right track. Like a lot of people during the Celtic Tiger I bought a property abroad and cut a long story short the rest is history.

I still have the property abroad, although I haven’t been able to pay the mortgage since 2009. Really the banks own it and they recently got a company to contact me to come to an arrangement with the bank so they can sell it. Obviously they want money off me which I no longer have as I never got over the crisis after the Celtic Tiger.

I now have an added problem the property maintenance committee for the property have got a debt collection agency in the UK chasing me for €14,000 of unpaid maintenance. By the way the property is in Cyprus. They are after sending me a letter that if I don’t pay by March 8th they are going to get a court judgement against me. I know I should have been paying but when you have no money there is nothing you can do.

I would just like to forget about the property and move on, but until I can get rid of it I can’t. I am just looking for advice out there on what I can do. When I was buying the property I gave my address then where I was living at the time, but I am no longer living at this address but they keep addressing the letters to that address. I am just looking for anyway I can sleep easy at night. Many thanks
 
If you are no longer at the property how are you getting the mail ? Did you engage with them in any way ? If not then that's a good start.
 
elcato said:
If you are no longer at the property how are you getting the mail ? Did you engage with them in any way ? If not then that's a good start.
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I live in the same small town and where I live now is only a 5 minute walk away from my original house. Most people know each other and the postman would be well known to everyone. If I get post for my old house, he still drops it to my new house.
 
So don't engage. If it was in a city I would encourage you to send the letters back with 'no longer at this address' on it but I guess if you do that the postman will know as he will be tasked to return to sorting office. Could you approach him without worrying about gossip ? They have absolutely no proof you live there. They're chancing their arm to see if you engage, that's all.
 
Write return to sender on them & drive to the biggest town near you & pop them back in the post box
 
Claff58 said:
I still have the property abroad
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So you still have responsibilities with the property

elcato said:
So don't engage.
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Or, you could accept the situation your in and engage.
DannyBoyD said:
Write return to sender
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Here we go again..

Not addressing property maintenance burdens all other residents who do engage and fulfil their obligations.

This running away from responsibilities is a very Irish thing we hear of, but then again, it seems work, and, gets great encouragement from all. I wonder if other Countries adopt the same way of thinking.
 
LS400 said:
So you still have responsibilities with the property


Or, you could accept the situation your in and engage.

Here we go again..

Not addressing property maintenance burdens all other residents who do engage and fulfil their obligations.

This running away from responsibilities is a very Irish thing we hear of, but then again, it seems work, and, gets great encouragement from all. I wonder if other Countries adopt the same way of thinking.
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i would imagine the answer to that is yes......human nature tends to be the same the world over.
 
I thank everyone for there input. I would love to be able to pay the money and be done with them but unfortunately that can’t happen. I actually got 2 registered letters today but as I was not at home the postman left a note and said they can be collected at the post office. I won’t be collecting them. The debt collections agency that had sent me the notice is from the Uk if that means anything?? Thanks
 
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You say you just want to be able to move on and sleep easy at night,, but how can you do this without engaging and accepting responsibility for your actions so as to cut all your ties with this property..
 
In the first post it was stated the property is effectively in the control of a bank who now wish to sell it. Are the maintenence fees not theirs to pay?
Is the bank a local one or other? I would deal with them not the debt collection company. The debt should follow the property if you can't pay.
How this had gone 13 years without conclusion is odd!
 
Luternau said:
In the first post it was stated the property is effectively in the control of a bank who now wish to sell it. Are the maintenence fees not theirs to pay?
Is the bank a local one or other? I would deal with them not the debt collection company. The debt should follow the property if you can't pay.
How this had gone 13 years without conclusion is odd!
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Yes, this is confusing...
Claff58 said:
Really the banks own it

...

I would just like to forget about the property and move on, but until I can get rid of it I can’t.
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Thanks again for the replies. The bank have control of the property alright, they have contacted me a short while ago to try and take back the property by reaching an agreement that might be favourable to me, ie relieve of the mortgage debt and hopefully your right in saying that the property maintenance I owe at the moment might be there debt also. I will engage with them a lot more now but you can imagine I’m nervous. Believe it or not as far as I know the property should be vacant and would be since 2009. Thanks
 
Hello,

If you don't have the ability to repay the bank debt, or the additional money due for the property maintenance, then you have nothing to really fear - so why not be honest with them, engage fully, show them that you have no ability to pay?

The bank will have a formal process to go through, and will ask for information to evidence what you tell them, but ultimately, they'll see for themselves that they can't get what isn't there.

You are not being clear about a few things, though:

Has the bank formally taken possession of the property, and how exactly do you know this?

How do you know that there hasn't been any rent generated by the property, in the last 13 years, or so ?

What is your financial situation, do you own where you live, do you have a regular income, any savings or other assets?

As for the debt collecting agent looking to collect the unpaid maintenance charges, tell them the same thing as the bank, and offer to evidence what you tell them. Tell them that you are also engaging with the bank, and give them the contact details for the bank, as they share a common problem.

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring these things, is never a good strategy - in fact, it often makes things worse.

Be honest, and it'll work out...
 
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MrEarl said:
Hello,

If you don't have the ability to repay the bank debt, or the additional money due for the property maintenance, then you have nothing to really fear - so why not be honest with them, engage fully, show them that you have no ability to pay?

The bank will have a formal process to go through, and will ask for information to evidence what you tell them, but ultimately, they'll see for themselves that they can't get what isn't there.

You are not being clear about a few things, though:

Has the bank formally taken possession of the property, and how exactly do you know this?

How do you know that there hasn't been any rent generated by the property, in the last 13 years, or so ?

What is your financial situation, do you own where you live, do you have a regular income, any savings or other assets?

As for the debt collecting agent looking to collect the unpaid maintenance charges, tell them the same thing as the bank, and offer to evidence what you tell them. Tell them that you are also engaging with the bank, and give them the contact details for the bank, as they share a common problem.

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring these things, is never a good strategy - in fact, it often makes things worse.

Be honest, and it'll work out...
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Good advice. @Claff58 would do well to heed it.
 
Out of interest, are maintenance fees registered as a charge against the property ?
Put another way, if the fees are a charge on the property does that inhibit the bank from selling it until that charge is cleared ?.

If negotiating a settlement with the bank consider an angle whereby any value due to revert to you after sale might be set off against the fees due.
Be careful to negotiate any such settlement on the basis that you are totally discharged on a clear cut basis.
You need to avoid making a settlement and still find yourself being pursued for the debt.

BTW much of what we say here may only be of academic value if the contract was formed in Cyprus and subject to their law.
In that event the definitive advice would need to be from a lawyer in Cyprus.
 
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Thanks again for the input, it has really helped me going forward. Later next week I am going to be having a zoom call with representatives from the Bank in Cyprus. I will thread very carefully and I will make sure I am clear and they are clear where I am at and where they are at. MrEarl asked me do I own my own property?? Yes I do. Do I have a regular income?? Yes I do.
Do I have savings?? Little or none. Have the bank taken possession of property?? They haven’t yet but their representatives are in touch with me to take back property and relieve me of the property debt. This leads me back to my initial question can the debt collectors follow me for the maintenance fees or when and hopefully I can make agreement with the bank that they will take on the property maintenance fees?? Hopefully I will know more next week and I will be back to let ye know what’s the story and probably ask another question or two. Fingers crossed all goes well. Talk soon.
 
That's a very good start - engagement is key, as it allows for potential deals to be done, without going into court.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the laws in Cyprus, but in France, they'd look to pursue you for the management charges seperately (it's handled through a seperate management company). I'd expext it to be similar in Cyprus tbh, but you should try and negotiate a deal with the Bank to include the fees, or tell them that you need to do a deal with the agent on fees, alongside the bank, given you only have one very limited pool of resources etc.

Be honest, and transparent, and you'll do better than you might, otherwise. You may have a home and regular income here, but everyone knows that you'll have living costs, you may have a mortgage etc. so it'll be down to your ability to pay.
 
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