David Walsh,Paul Kimmage & The Devil they "know&quo

David Walsh

Hi,
I profess to have followed David Walsh from newspaper to newspaper since I became aware of him 10 or more years ago, I believe him to be the greatest sportswriter writing in these Islands today - but thats just my opinion. He's also written a book about Sean Kelly (plus Richard Dunwoody)& covered circa 18 tour de France races in his career, I believe he is going after the big fish because of his love of sport, if one of the big stars who commands the big sponsership deals is found to be rotten, then it should have a more profound effect than highlighting hundreds of lesser athlethes that dope to survive. The bottom line in pro sport is the same as the bottom line in big buisness - money - and one thing is for certain eventually money corrupts. In the world of sport I see Walsh as a small fish who is gambling his reputation with this book on Armstrong all for the love of sport, whether he gets out with his reputation intact or not we'll have to wait & see but I hope more journalists would take his fearless approach & highlight the corruption in sport - read Tom Humphries year in a life diary also -, because one voice will not make any impression in the big busisness that pro sport has become or the illusions that it is peddeling.
 
..

It's laughable to suggest that the cycling authorities actively pursue drug-takers in their ranks.

The Festina affair was precipated by the work of the police/customs authorities in Belgium who stopped a team official with a boot full of goodies on his way to this country. The susbequent investigation revealed a culture of complacency and tolerance by the authorities that allowed the drugs culture to thrive.

As long ago as 1967, the UK cyclist Tommy Simpson died in the Tour de France having consumed more than water. Despite this advance notice, ther's little to suggest that the sports own authorities did anything about it.

And the suggestion that the sport was drugs free in the days of Roche and Kelly is stretching belief.
 
Doping

Spacer,
Nobody is suggesting that the was no drugs in the Roche/Kelly era, or that cycling has not tried to brush the doping issue under the carpet, and still does in some cases. However, I do believe that cycling is taking a firmer stance than most other sports in that it is willing to accept that it has a problem, sponsors demand it, and is making some, inadequate in most cases, measures to tackle the problem.
My point is that cycling is the easy target for everyone and that most, if not all, other sports are also affected by doping but their ruling bodies do not appear to want to highlight it. They probably take the view that cycling is concentrated on in this regard so they can just carry on.
It is perfectly correct that someone who puts themselves up as a hero/leader, be it in politics/sport etc, should be investigated by journalists, for it is they who bring us the real truth, hence tribunals etc. I just believe that David Walsh is taking the easy option here by saying that maybe Lance Armstrong took EPO etc, instead of concentrating on other sports which people believe are clean, ie football. Surely this would be a better service to sport.
 
Re: Doping

instead of concentrating on other sports which people believe are clean, ie football. Surely this would be a better service to sport.

I'm using a lot of guesswork and common sense here so bear with me.
By it's very nature a sport like cycling demands 120% from a competitors body over long periods of time. No time to stop and take a breather. It naturally lends itself to taking some drug which will not only enhance performance but keep up endurance.
I would doubt that you would find anything like the level of doping that supposedly exists in cycling in a sport like soccer. I have nothing to back up this claim other than common sense.

They do do drug testing in soccer. On the rare occasions (that I can remember anyway) that they've found anyone out it's been over recreational drug use...Maradonna in the world cup etc.

My point is, some sports stick out like a sore thumb in terms of doping. Cycling, athletics, swimming, to name but a few.

I doubt you'd find many golfers taking performance enhancing drugs!! That's a good enough reason for me not to drug test golfers.
 
other sports

why wouldn't golfers take drugs piggy? anabolic steroids to build muscle, drive longer, par 5's are now reachable in two?

there are really strong measures taken against drugs in cycling, some with the help of the cycling federation, but most with the policies set down by officials in countries such as Italy and France and carried out by coppers. Dawn raids were all the rage in this years Giro. Nobody was caught with anything, but that makes sense, these, newer drugs are less in needle and amphetamine use as in Tom Simpson's era. Nowadays with the help of the doctors, drugs can be taken weeks in advance, the benefits remain in the system and are hidden by the various masking agents.

David Walsh isn't writing garbage. He's got his facts and he's probably very accurate. But I'll go back to my earlier mails in highlighting the fact that he's going for the big guys and not the whole peleton. In who's interest is that? Walsh for prestige or cycling as a whole?
 
Re: other sports

why wouldn't golfers take drugs piggy? anabolic steroids to build muscle, drive longer, par 5's are now reachable in two?

That's pretty far fetched though isn't it? Do you reckon this is going on?
 
is it going on?

thats the whole point. at one stage nobody believed our favourite cycling and athletics icons were on anything. we thought they were masters at their game.

i'm probably being far fetched with golf, but its definitley a possibility.

i'd say the only sport safe is Women's Lawn Bowls. even then you can see the steely eye of some of those grannies. definitley on something performance enhancing like Barry's Tea or snuff
 
Doping

Piggy,
Tiger Woods burst onto the golf scene by not only being supremely talented, as are alot of other golfers, but a big difference was his attitude to fitness and training. He spent hours in the gym each week working out, ate the right foods etc, while others, Montgomery, Clarke etc were happy with pottering around. Tiger showed them all the difference that fitness can make. If taking drugs can mean that you can train harder so that on the last round/hole playoff you are in better shape than your opponent you have a better chance of winning.
Doping in sport is not about a quick shot in the finishing straight but rather taking drugs during training to help the athlete train harder and longer and recover quicker therefore allowing them to be in better condition in the actual event.
I not accusing anybody here, this is just an example of better fitness etc, but how many times have Man Utd won games in the last few minutes, or the recent France v England match, or France v Italy 2000. One sides players had the ability to continue at a higher level for longer than the other and that effected the outcome.
Of course the likelihood is there that some golfers take drugs. The ability to hit a ball even 10 yards further on each hole can make a huge difference. With so much to play for it doesn't seem much of a step to go from pushing the boundaries with the latest equipment technology, to taking health supplements to taking something a little stronger.
 
...

Greg42:

The fact that Armstrong is tested regularly is irrelevant if he were taking drugs that are undectable. There is no test for HGH or THG etc. and it is possible that genetic doping is upon us. True, these drugs lend themself to muscle building which Armstrong clearer has not done (there is a school of thought that after the cancer had depleted his muscles, Lance came back lighter and with new muscles which had been fine-tuned specifically for cycling..which may explain some of his amazing feats)...but the 50% acceptable haemocrit level is hardly an effective test for EPO- THE drug that provides everything an endurance athlete (e.g. rowers, cyclists, swimmers, athletes) need...and there are bound to be all sorts of drugs we haven't even heard about yet (see recent revelation of THG).

True, there may well be doping in soccer and its good to see them finally sign up to WADA, but the benefits are less obvious. Individual sports will always be more susceptible to drug use, and cycling is justly receiving the most stick as it has the worst proven track record and a governing body who are prepared to do no more than pay lip-service to the issue of doping. What they should do is start blood testing and allowing freezing of the blood so that it can be retro-tested when tests for HGH, THG etc. become available.
 
Re: Doping

Tiger Woods burst onto the golf scene by not only being supremely talented, as are alot of other golfers, but a big difference was his attitude to fitness and training. He spent hours in the gym each week working out, ate the right foods etc, while others, Montgomery, Clarke etc were happy with pottering around. Tiger showed them all the difference that fitness can make. If taking drugs can mean that you can train harder so that on the last round/hole playoff you are in better shape than your opponent you have a better chance of winning.

Tiger Woods is/was just a vey talented golfer. I believe he's in danger of being knocked off his perch this season. I see your point, but I really don't think that golf lends itself to doping...even to gain those extra ten yards. It's far more about accuracy than distance anyway.
Most successful athletes adopt the eat right, exercise regularly regime. Even the top snooker players. Stephen Hendry has been doing this for years. Do you think he's taking drugs to enhance his performance?

Some sports need to be looked at more closely because they lend themselves to this sort of activity. Sure, there are sports which need to be looked at more closely too. I just don't think soccer (or golf) is one of them.
 
Re: Doping

"Stephen Hendry has been doing this for years. Do you think he's taking drugs to enhance his performance?"

Maybe not, but snookeer players were on drugs for years. Eddie Charlton, Big Bill were all regular users of beta blockers to control there nerves.

Bearing this in mind do you now have suspicions about the performance of Ray Riordan, Joe Davis & Steve Davis?

...and for that matter why is Tiger beyond belief?
 
Re: Doping

Maybe not, but snookeer players were on drugs for years. Eddie Charlton, Big Bill were all regular users of beta blockers to control there nerves.

Jimmy White took Cocaine for years. Maybe all his titles (or lack of?) should be taken from him. Personally I don't think so.

Bearing this in mind do you now have suspicions about the performance of Ray Riordan, Joe Davis & Steve Davis?

As an armchair fan of snooker and someone who's watched it for years I don't think so...although I wasn't watching it when Joe and Ray were playing.
If the only truly fair way of solving a debate like this were to drug test every single sporting competitor then I'd be all for it. That's unlikely to happen so common sense has to come into play. Snooker players shouldn't be put in the same bracket as cyclists (for obvious reasons).

...and for that matter why is Tiger beyond belief?

Well, I'd personally be very surprised if it was because he takes drugs to enhance his performance. As a matter of fact, if it turns out that that's the reason why I'll eat my hat.

I don't know much about golf, but I do know that he's not "beyond belief". He has his bad days too (or seasons).
 
Re: Doping

Eddie Charlton, Big Bill were all regular users of beta blockers to control there nerves.

You may be right about this. I don't know. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

There are many reasons why people might take beta blockers.

[broken link removed]

USES OF BETA BLOCKERS

TREATMENT OF HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE

CONTROL OF ANGINA

TREATMENT OF CERTAIN ABNORMAL HEART RHTHMS

PROLONGING SURVIVAL OF PATIENTS WHO HAVE HAD A HEART ATTACK

TREATMENT OF HYPERTROPHIC CARDIOMYOPATHY

TREATMENT OF HEART FAILURE

TREATMENT OF VASOVAGAL FAINTING

TREATMENT OF MIGRAINES

TREATMENT OF ESSENTIAL TREMOR

PREVENTION OF BLEEDING FROM ESOPHAGEAL VARICES

PREVENTION OF STAGE FRIGHT

GLAUCOMA
 
Just a point

On the golf side of the argument, the reason par fives are being reached in two is down the improvements in the equipment. Fred Funk was playing alongside Mickelson last night. He's 48 years of age (a young man some would say) and he's driving the ball 50 - 60 yards further now then he was 10 and 20 years ago. I can see the possibility that a golfer would use drugs to help him train harder, but I think it's remote, and the effect it would have is miniscule in comparison to other factors effecting golf.

The lean mean fighting machine that is Darren Clarke still managed to miss this weekends cut at the US Open.

On the athletics side of the argument one thing that intrigued me on the recent RTE Primetime documentary was John Treacy's attitude towards supplements. As far as he was concerned no athlete should be taking any supplements whatsoever. Now from my position (sitting back in front of TV with remote in one hand and cream donut in the other) this seems rather simplistic. Formula One cars don't fill up in their local esso. Rock of Gibralter doesn't have the same diet as the shetland pony on Carne Beach. If cheats are to be stopped, then the people running sport in this country and elsewhere have to be in tune with the way theirs sports are developing. They can't promote simplistic views such as the one portrayed by John Treacy, otherwise they won't be taken seriously by either the athletes or by the general viewing public.
 
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