Daughter - Institute of Ed 5th and 6th Year

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Maryb50

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Hi!

It might not be the appropriate forum to ask this as it doesn't seem to be for children, but just wondering if anyone has any experience of sending their daughter or son to Institute of Education. My daughter didn't like her old school - teachers absent a lot, lots of disruptive pupils, 11 different music teachers in 3 years, 5 different history teachers, and 3 different Irish teachers. She went to the Institute for grinds for JC and felt she learned more there in a couple of weeks than 2 years in her old school. She really did not want to stay at her old school for TY, and if I couldn't afford to send her for TY to Institute, she wanted to go straight into 5th year there - she will only be just 17 when she does her LC. However, now after paying the 5th Year fee I am concerned, my daughter has had a lot of illness in the last 18 months, including PCOS and related acne and weight gain, which she is very upset up. She is on medication for acne. She has also recently been diagnosed with a thyroid problem. Last year she was investigated for a suspect tumour in her ear canal - but thankfully, this turned out to be another not so serious issue. She also has missed a lot of school this year with repeated throat infections - has had her tonsils out, so it seems to be something to do with her sinuses. She is now being referred to an endocrinologist.

I am worried that the pressure of 5th year in the Institute may be too much for her, but having to pay for three years in the Institute if I let her do TY there, would be a huge burden, especially with another child who wants to go there also. If I pay for my daughter to do TY there, I will have paid out 19k over three years, if I let her do 5th and 6th year there only, I will be paying out 14k.

Given the issues with my daughter's health, wondering, especially if any teachers are on this forum, if 5th year in the Institute is very pressurising, and would it be better for her to do TY there, and just worry re finances later. Would really welcome any comment/advice as need to act quite soon re change from 5th Year to TY.
 
rollercoaster.ie is a parenting website. You might get helpful responses on their discussion boards. I've found their boards very helpful over the years.
Even if your daughter hadn't been ill, I still think going into 5th year, in a new school, very young, without doing TY, would've been tough. My sons benefited from TY. Even though they think they did very little that year, they did grow up! And went into 5th year with a more mature outlook.
 
What does the father think of all this, I notice you seem to be making all the decisions and is your daughter happy about all of this?
 
If she's not happy in her current school why not just move her to another non-fee paying school. €19,000 or even €14,000 is an astronomical amount of money to pay for three/two years of secondary school before you then have to deal with paying third level fees and expenses.
 
You should look around at other schools in your area even if your daughter has to travel a bit further by bus to get there. By and large secondary education in Ireland is excellent so it would be pure madness shelling out thousands of euro on private education unless you are really wealthy and can afford it.
 

A child of mine had the same problems re changing / absent / or just bad teachers, along with not being able to get their subject choices and disruptive pupils etc, child and us felt a lot better could be done, we looked at other non fee paying schools, the only suitable one could not offer a place, so we went to the institute for 5th & 6th year, it was hard going but child was much happier there and grades improved greatly.

Another child thought they might do better there, but found that what was expected from the Institute interfered with social and sport life, that child ended up willingly going back to their original school for 6th year.

If your child is capable and willing to work, she will get all the tuition, support and back up needed to achieve her best in the Institute, if she is not academic or willing to work, then no point in going to the Institute, it’s not for everyone, and of course the finances also have to be considered.

That has been our experience anyway.

I would also think that being just barely 17 is young to be sitting the Leaving Cert, and would encourage Transition year somewhere.
 
Thanks to all of you for your replies.

I'm definitely not going to send her to the Institute now for TY. I enquired about TY in the local mixed school today. They may have a place for her - if she is agreeable to doing this.

Noproblem - her dad hasn't been in the picture since she was 8 - not interested, doesn't contact her, won't be paying towards the Institute. Re secondary schools being by and large good - her brother who is very bright says the same about the secondary school that they are both in.

My son's friend is in another local school and says exactly the same - course not finished, teachers absent a lot, disruptive pupils etc. Twofort, thank so much for your report on your experience of the Institute. I think the Institute might interfere a bit with my daughter's social life, rather than sporting life. I've asked her to consider TY in a school closer to home, but she won't, and I can't afford TY in the Institute as my son is not happy to stay in the non fee paying school he is in now past JC due to teacher absence, disruption etc - so unless he get's a part scholarship, it will mean full fess for 5th and 6th year for him also - he will be old enough to skip TY.
 
The first solution I would offer is stick out TY where she is. Obviously, I don't know the full issues, so that may be out of the question. Reason being, TY can be good in terms of reducing stress, especially if health is an issue at present. Is it possible she could wind down for a year, look after health and then go to the Institute? Maybe take up some hobbies she has never had the time for. I took up rugby in TY having been a big GAA head. Liked it so much, I went to New Zealand to play. Also, I've seen first hand how school plays in TY can really benefit kids. It really can be a time when kids come out of their shell.

On the flip side. I left my school after 5th year to go to an Institute style school for the LC. (This was nearly 20yrs ago now!) Academically, it wasn't any better than the school I was in. One of my siblings went for 3rd, 5th & 6th yr. Again, it didn't improve academics but there were additional reasons for leaving other school.

Incidentally, my partner also attended one for the LC. Between the three of us, not one of us would say the schools were academically better. It depends on the student. We all relatively enjoyed our time there. The expense is savage on a parent though. We had bus commutes plus lunches/dinners if doing after school study. There's also the clothing factor to consider with no uniforms.

What i would suggest for you, is that if your child attends the Institute, it can't be for the pressure of grades. More for the learning environment and her desire to be in such. She gets what she gets. From my experience, it's the placebo effect.

I caveat this with saying I was never schooled at the Institute and my secondary education was in the last century!
 
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I think her age is a major factor and she will just be too young doing LC without a TY year. My niece went to a similar type private school for 5th & 6th year and has just done her LC, she won't be 17 until July.

It's much too young, she was always quite a bit younger than her classmates and just didn't fit in and couldn't even go out for the night with them after their recent grad due to her age. Now that she is finished I understand she is actually too young for some of the college courses she may have wanted. I really don't have the full details on that as I was only half listening to the conversation but that could be a major disadvantage if accurate.

She now has to either spend a year on a PLC course or similar or work. I also think a TY would have really been good for her and helped with confidence etc.
 
I went to Ashfield College in Templeogue for 6th year and it made a massive difference to how I got on in the Leaving Cert. I did go to a fee paying school but the standard of teaching was pretty poor; teachers disinterested in teaching, another teacher more interested in the phd he was doing rather than teaching the syllabus.

The difference in the standard in teaching was night and day. In Ashfield, they got us analysing and thinking about topics, and really pushed us to do well. These "cram schools" are purely privately funded, so if the teachers don't perform, they are gone. They are college like settings, where you can have large gaps in your day with no classes, so your child has to be disciplined to go to the study room instead of hanging out with their friends. The Institute has all the temptations that goes with being in town, so you need to watch that.

I wasn't aware that they did TY in the Institute but I don't really see the point in going there for TY. The goal of the Institute is to maximise points for the Leaving Cert. The Leaving Cert syllabus is a 2 year course, so I don't see why it would be of any benefit for a year outside that syllabus.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 

Not wanting to hijack this thread. I have commented on this post in a new thread here.

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/second-level-education-in-crisis.204109/
 
S.Barrett,

Thanks for you post.

I think for me and my daughter, that is the difference, the teachers in either the Institute or Ashfield are top notch, if they don't do a good job, they're out. I'm sure there are many great teachers in the State schools, but there are probably as many not so good teachers.

Creme egg,

I saw your previous post about this under education. I'm not sure how good the other local schools are. As I said above, my son's friend is in another local, all boys school, and he says the teachers are absent a lot, don't finish the course, go off topic a lot in class, and he also has had several changes of teachers for different subjects. There are two local girls schools near us, but my daughter won't go to an all girls school, and I have to say, knowing how girls can be, I would much prefer a mixed school. I do think the standard of education has really slipped - my daughter at Xmas had to ask me how to write an essay - no one had told her how to do it, and the structure/format of an essay - no one in English or History - the two subjects where you would expect this to happen. Just to make for more comment - the school that my daughter and son are currently in is one of the top four hundred schools in the League Tables, and so is the school that my son's friend goes to where he says it's 'This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language' for the above reasons. My daughter's friends, just finished JC with her, say that if you are extremely focused, you might do well in that school, but not otherwise - they also give out about teaches absent a lot, several changes of teachers over 3 years, the JC Course not being finished in several subjects - my daughter's English, Maths and Music course was not finished, and she now thinks she will get a C in music, when she was expecting an A. So I'm afraid, Cremegg, you are probably spot on re secondary education in the country at the moment.
 
I went through four physics and two maths teachers in one year for LC in the "specialist school" i went to because the kids complained. The maths teachers were poor or had to work with a broad range of kids as opposed to a higher stream of kids looking for A's and i ended up doing it on my own.

Again, a long time ago.
 
Hi! All, thanks for all your replies. My daughter has finally agreed to do Transition Year in her old school and then transfer to the Institute next year. I'm not sure what she will get out of it, except a year's break/less stress for a year, as she has been involved in so much extra curricular stuff already that a lot of the things they mentioned as part of TY, she had already done.
 
It appears to be the best outcome for:

Health
Stress
Age
Financially

All in, seems like a positive outcome.
 
Hi! All, just to give you an update - very positive really. My mum had started a savings plan for the children when they were born. My daughter was unhappy about going back to her old school, but was going back for TY as I couldn't afford another year in the Institute. However, another girl in my daughter's old school is going to France for TY to go to school there for the year. My daughter was going on about how she would love to do something like that, and given that my daughter has long term medical issues, which have affected her in terms of weight, skin condition etc, which, although my daughter is super confident and assertive, lead her to be upset many times by comments from her peers about this, my mum offered to give her some of the money she had set aside for her now to go to France for the year - my mum had saved about 18k for her to date - it's 10k for the year in France, and there is a place for her in a school in Brittany - boarding and family at weekends, so it seems she is going to go for this. Thanks again for all the advice/comments.
 
The year"out" can still be a vety beneficial year even if you feel she has done a lot of TY stuff already.
Look at it from two angles. 1. Health. The year can be used to improve her health perhaps through a good mediaccly approved fitness and nutrition programme. This can be done without feeling that she is sacrificing study time. It may mean she can enter the LC years physically healthier and with improved self esteem. 2. Education. Transition year. It can be used to focus on her weaker subjects. Perhaps a grind on a language subject that she finds difficult and spends too much time on as a result. Extra work on a subject through TY year could really pay off.
 
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