Damages to house as tenants vacate

Hi
We have a 3 bed house that we have rented to same tenants over the last 12 years under the HAP scheme. They have now been offered a council house so have just vacated the property.

Upon inspection, we found they got rid of the sitting room furniture and all the beds plus there is extensive damage to the outside of the back door. It appears they had a dog that inflicted some damage to the furniture so they got rid of it and replaced with secondhand furniture, they never informed us that they were doing this. We have no problem with getting rid of worn furniture but we did expect that the replacements would be left in situ. They removed all the decent furniture and left a few unstable items behind. They are from Latvia and didn’t appear to understand the need to inform us when removing furniture etc!! The damage to the back door will probably mean we have to replace that.

They were good tenants over the years and we don’t want to be too hard on them in relation to refunding their deposit but do feel that the costs to us to get it back to a rental condition, will be costly. We wouldn’t expect them to have new beds or new sitting room furniture installed and understand that we have to take into account wear and tear over the years. We just want to get view on what is a fair deduction from their €1100 deposit.
many thanks.

Did you have an inventory when they moved in?

Yes, full inventory provided beforehand and indeed as soon as 5hey inform us they were moving.

We don’t expect every single item to be in situ but bigger items of furniture removed especially in the sitting room, makes a big difference to our out of pocket expenses.

Grand - in that case work from your inventory & list every item that needs to be replaced, either because its missing or broken. Give each item a cost, add it all up and divide by 2. Thats how much you will retain.

It may well be all of the deposit, but you now have a document and process to back up your figures.

And for your next tenants - regular inspections are essential.

Did you carry out inspections?

Bear in mind the RTB takes a very tenant-friendly view of the concept of wear and tear.

Some of the items may have passed their use by date over the 12 years - nothing lasts forever, and the tenants would not be expected to replace items as they wear out from their pocket.

Broadcaster said:

They were good tenants over the years and we don’t want to be too hard on them in relation to refunding their deposit but do feel that the costs to us to get it back to a rental condition, will be costly. We wouldn’t expect them to have new beds or new sitting room furniture installed and understand that we have to take into account wear and tear over the years. We just want to get view on what is a fair deduction from their €1100 deposit.
many thanks.

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Would any missing 12 year old furniture not need replacing at this stage for new tenants ?
Is it possible your tenants replaced worn furniture themselves ? and then took it to their new home as they paid for it ?
A damaged back door won’t cost much to replace.
I think I would be giving my good tenants of 12 years their deposit back and moving on with no hassle.

We rented out to a number of HAP tenants and sad to say it left a lot to desired. The tenants were ok.

When the HAP tenants vacated one property, they removed the new white goods we had recently supplied, we replaced the white goods and deducted the cost before returning the remainder of the deposit.

On another occasion the HAP tenants left without any notice in the middle of the tenancy. When we contacted HAP they informed us that we would not receive any rent that month because the tenant had not given HAP the nominal tenants contribution to the rent.

While you can’t deduct for normal wear and tear, I think you can deduct for damage, especially if they had a dog that caused it. Our rental contract specify no pets but some tenants choose to ignore it.

We did not deal with HAP again.

Since you did not do regular inspections you did not stop the deterioration of items like the door as you want along. I would give them their deposit back and move on.

I would say that between tenancies you would take the opportunity to repaint, refresh worn items, check all appliances, electrics, heating, insulation so you would have significant maintenance after a 12 year tenancy.

On the furniture, I would also feel that apart if they were brand new, nearly new or of very good quality, I wouldn't expect much after 12 years. We have very limited furniture in the property we rent, after 9 years, sofa and chair have been changed. That said I have tenants who left this weekend and I haven't been around yet because I can't face to the fact that I will probably just ruin my weekend.

Wear & tear is one thing - missing / broken is another.

I think the argument is things are usually depreciated over 8 years, so whether they are damaged or missing becomes academic after 12 years? Would have hoped some things might survive myself but I can see the arguments people are making for it being a give the deposit back case

After 12 years, things would be broken with normal wear and tear. Yes the tenants should have advised and asked landlord to deal with the furniture before. However I would not expect them to replace 12 years old furniture with new one and just left it there. We are talking about sitting room furniture. So I would think sofa, a 12 years old sofa. It's a lot of years to ask for a low/medium quality sofa in a rental accommodation

Tenants can't simply dispose of the furniture or appliances in the property they rent.

No they shouldn't have. If it was old, they should have asked for a replacement.

DannyBoyD said:

Tenants can't simply dispose of the furniture or appliances in the property they rent.

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Are you serious,good tenants for 12 years and nothing replaced by landlord in that time.
Most furniture plus appliances are worn out and need replacing after this length of time.
Give them back their deposit,do the right thing.By the way im a Landlord.

I had the same issue with long term HAP tenants changing furniture.

In one case they bought a new sofa and beds without asking, and disposed of my furniture. Thia was good quality and not in poor condition. Agent had even put in new mattresses for them.

When vacating (to move to 3 bed HAP) they then took their sofa and beds, leaving none for my new tenant. I withheld part of deposit and they appealed to RTB. While that was unsuccessful, I still had to outlay more money to replace them.

A second HAP tenant replaced all my furniture with their own, again without permission. This was picked up at inspection. This is still ongoing as the tenant is in situ. Deposit will not cover cost of replacement of all the furniture. Reason for change was not liking the existing furniture, which is not a valid reason. There is no valid reason to dispose of something you don't own

Maybe in both cases the generousity of HAP is the problem. Many HAP tenants appear to be well off, with lots of money to spend on replacing things that people who must pay full rent or mortgage just make do with.

lukas888 said:

Most furniture plus appliances are worn out and need replacing after this length of time

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Whilst this may or may not be true; the fact still remains that tenants may not dispose of items in a property they are renting.

OP must decide on and apply a process for deposit; one can't simply pull a figure out of the air.

DannyBoyD said:

Whilst this may or may not be true; the fact still remains that tenants may not dispose of items in a property they are renting.

OP must decide on and apply a process for deposit; one can't simply pull a figure out of the air.

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No standard furniture is worth anything close to half its initial value after 12 years. Some of these pieces would probably have needed to be changed after such a long time and if the tenant hadn't rent for 12 years, they might even have needed to be changed earlier. After this amount of time I would always have expected a lot of work needed to put the the property back to the market and it was always going to be costly. But it's a cost that hasn't occurred for more than a decade. During that time, there has been no change of furniture, I would imagine no painting, no weeks where the place was left empty. This in itself is worth a lot of money, no time involved looking for new tenants. No utility bills between rentals. I would not have the same answer if the tenant had stayed a couple of years.

Hi All, first thanks to all for taking the time to reply.
There appears, however, to be a lot of assumptions in many of the replies e.g. no replacement of any furniture for 12 years. Where did you read that? A new suite was provided after 5 years….mainly due to the damage caused by their dog!! Over the years we provided a New cooker, new dishwasher, new washing machine. Place painted twice inside and out. So there is no question of just renting the property without maintenance.
The furniture in the sitting room was good quality but perhaps because of the dog damage or they simply didn’t like brown furniture, they got rid of these. We didn’t expect everything to be perfect but stripping the place is not acceptable in my view.
The back door that is damaged, is a composite door so not easily repaired.
Hope that helps to clear up any misunderstanding.