County Council now snooping in ESB bills!

So when reading about the new € 200 “Holiday Home” tax I found this nugget:

One key weapon in the armoury of the city and county councils will be a provision in the law that gives them access to ESB bills.

What has this state come to?

Now our local government (mostly uncontrolled individuals that have no idea how to effectively manage a country) has the right to ask the ESB where someone lives and what his usage pattern of electricity is?

So our ESB is now actually acting as a home owner registration and people’s address registration authority?

This is getting more and more like Zimbabwe!

Side Note: What has this government against holidays, a tax to leave the country via Aircraft on holidays and a tax on holiday’s home?

Have ESB do one home, and Airtricity /BG do the other home!

Just dont let BG put your details on a laptop!

Just as well have solar panels & wind turbine on our HH

Isn't there also something about the TV license people allowed to ask electrical stores for who bought a TV etc? I think once you fill in the guarantee, then the license people can request the addresses from that? I don't think I dreamed this but i can't for the life of me think where i heard it.

If you can afford a holiday home, I don't see what the problem with paying a €200 tax on it. Personally I would make it higher.

Ruam

DublinTexas said:

So when reading about the new € 200 “Holiday Home” tax I found this nugget:

One key weapon in the armoury of the city and county councils will be a provision in the law that gives them access to ESB bills.

What has this state come to?

Now our local government (mostly uncontrolled individuals that have no idea how to effectively manage a country) has the right to ask the ESB where someone lives and what his usage pattern of electricity is?

So our ESB is now actually acting as a home owner registration and people’s address registration authority?

This is getting more and more like Zimbabwe!

Side Note: What has this government against holidays, a tax to leave the country via Aircraft on holidays and a tax on holiday’s home?

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Ruam said:

If you can afford a holiday home, I don't see what the problem with paying a €200 tax on it. Personally I would make it higher.

Ruam

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It's not a "holiday homes" tax, it's a tax on any home that isn't a PPR. Quite a difference. I presume they like to use the former because it sounds like a "tax on the rich".

One good thing about the Local Authorities snooping on our ESB bills is that someone might wake up to the vast amount of empty properties in this country (although councils would do well to look at their own books first).

I can also guarantee this is the thin end of the wedge and that the initial low tax rate is to make it not worth avoiding, which drags everybody into the tax net before dramatically increasing the rate.

But tenants have to put bills in their own names so I don't see the relevance?

shesells said:

But tenants have to put bills in their own names so I don't see the relevance?

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I imagine they're concerned about ownership of the empties. Tenants will very quickly provide the council with details of their landlord to avoid being hit with the bill themselves.

room305 said:

One good thing about the Local Authorities snooping on our ESB bills is that someone might wake up to the vast amount of empty properties in this country (although councils would do well to look at their own books first).

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Don't get me started on this. The number of vacant local authority houses around the country is scandalous. I know of several near me which are empty for YEARS ( one 1 x bed maisonette for an elderly person is vacant 3 years now ) and not reallocated. By the time they get to the point of reallocating , an otherwise acceptable property needs a lot of work to get habitable. Recently an enquiry to the LA on an empty property got the response that it could not be reallocated until it was done up and they didn't have the funds. It wouldn't have needed doing up if it hadn't been left idle for so long. The lack of efficient management of properties which become available is maddening.

shesells said:

But tenants have to put bills in their own names so I don't see the relevance?

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Graham_07 said:

Don't get me started on this. The number of vacant local authority houses around the country is scandalous.

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My estate is riddled with them and I'd be tempted to say they "lower the tone" but it's not really the kind of area you say that about. Still, they are constantly being broken into by local hoodlums for drinking and God knows what else. So they create stress for those living in the area and problems for the Gardai.

But the number of typical LA houses lying vacant is dwarfed by the amount of unsold social & affordable housing LAs have bought from developers that nobody wants.

room305 said:

But the number of typical LA houses lying vacant is dwarfed by the amount of unsold social & affordable housing LAs have bought from developers that nobody wants.

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For what reason do people not want them?

Bronte said:

For what reason do people not want them?

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It's not necessarily that people don't want them, a lot of it is the time the LA takes to reallocate. As I said, I know of one 1 bed maisonette idle for over 3 years. The man died, the house was handed back to the LA. At that time it was in perfectly acceptable condition. There are I'm sure other people on the housing list who would be glad of it. The house is deteriorating through neglect and being empty. It is a scandalous mismanagement of the LA's assets ( and indirectly ours ! ) The LA has a list, why do they not just go to the next person on the list, ask them if they want it, if not, go to next etc. it's neither time consuming nor expensive. I'm sure there are people who'd do the bit of decorating etc. themselves just to get in the door.

elefantfresh said:

Isn't there also something about the TV license people allowed to ask electrical stores for who bought a TV etc? I think once you fill in the guarantee, then the license people can request the addresses from that? I don't think I dreamed this but i can't for the life of me think where i heard it.

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I worked in the TV licence section many years ago, and it was certainly the case then that any stores who sold (or rented) TVs were obliged to provide customer details to Dept of Posts & Telegraphs (that's how long ago I worked there....). Lists were cross-checked against licences and the inspector visited if a licence didn't materialise!! Of course, there were a lot fewer places to buy TVs back then, and one generally didn't leave the jurisdiction to do so!!

Ruam said:

If you can afford a holiday home, I don't see what the problem with paying a €200 tax on it. Personally I would make it higher.

Ruam

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just becuase you can afford something doesnt mean you should be taxed for it. We pay enough taxes as it is. Water charges, bin charges, VAT, income tax etc. Tax on the air we breath

It starts with a € 200 tax on each property you own that is not your Primary residence so that local authorities can start collecting massive amounts of data about each property in their area with the help of the ESB.

This data than will be cross checked against the data of the land registry, the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB) and the waste management agency.

In return the PRTB than has the ability to go after landlords who have not registered their tenants for whatever reason.

Once that all has been done the local government has under the umbrella “we need to know who owes us € 200” build up a database of home owners and tenants.

Than our government decides that the Home Owner Tax is needed also for the primary residence and voila due to the already existing verified data they can send out the bill without a problem.

But then again that would mean that the local authorities know how to use a database....

There are obvious data protection issues here.
I would think that just because the new law entitles the LA to ask the ESB for the information doesn't relieve the ESB of its responsibilties under the DP legislation. They may just refuse to give it; it will probably have to be tested in court.

I looked up the Bill and found this little gem. There will be an exemption for LA housing, obviously they won't have to charge themselves, but here's the actual wording:


the Health Act 2004"

So the lads would appear to be ok with their own investment properties, then.

Bronte said:

For what reason do people not want them?

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The typical LA houses or the social & affordable Part V stuff? Graham07 is probably spot on in his assessment on the standard houses. Generally, they're fine houses - sometimes the tenants leave them in a bad state but rarely much worse than superficial damage. However, after a year or two of neglect they're fit to be condemned. It's cheaper for the council to pay the rent of a private landlord than make the necessary repairs.

As for the Part V crap? Bad location, shoddy build, recession and high prices will do it for the affordable stuff. As for the social housing - well a lot of people on the social housing list don't want to move out of the area in which they grew up. Especially if the apartments are badly serviced by public transport, few shops around etc. Young single mothers don't want to move far from their parents, or don't want to accept a small one bedroom apartment since it will be hard to get the council to move them as the child grows older. New build apartments are frequently unsuitable for elderly people. Most of all there is probably little compulsion among many people on the housing list to accept a house they are offered if they are currently renting a property they are happy with, have settled in the area and all the rest.

Hoagy said:

So the lads would appear to be ok with their own investment properties, then.

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I'd say Frank "90 Gaffs" Fahey had a worried moment or two all the same ...