Counsellor said incorrect statements

[dodo]

Not real names, divorce process started

If an ex partner Jane was seeing a counsellor for stress, depression , bereavement etc Jane is an Alcoholic.
If the counsellor put in writing to help Jane get a sick cert based on the things Jane said happened , such as psychological and emotional abuse and coercive behaviour by her ex John which was false and no garda or legal complaints ever made. All hear say from Jane.
Adult children aware none of this happened
If this letter was brought to the GP to help with getting the sick cert and therfore giving to Jane's employer. What grounds does John have in this matter.
Is this lible?

 

[Clamball]

It should be no business of John or his children what information Jane shares with her GP or her work. It is a reflection of Jane’s character that she would use something that is untrue in these dealings.

However if say someone at Jane’s work used that information in a negative way against John (say Mary from accounts told her friend in John’s account department that he was a horrible person) then John could write to Jane’s company saying “The information Mary is spreading about me is untrue, the information can only have come from the information that Jane supplied you. Please do not use this information with other employees as it is untrue. Please ask Mary to stop using this information outside of her legimitate interest to know.

But it is probably more likely that Jane told Mary herself and is spreading lies and gossip which is untrue abut you. All John can do each time is say This is untrue, my ex-wife and I are going through a divorce and Mary seems to be creating fantasy scenarios to harm and hurt me and my children. I can do little to stop it but it is untrue so please do not carry on spreading this information.

 

[Steven Barrett]

How does John know all this information? Isn't it all confidential?

The report given to the GP would be strictly confidential and not disclosed to anyone, so how could that be libel? Sick certs are usually generic in nature and do not disclose much detail. they would also be strictly confidential. So I don't see where there would be libel here either? If someone in the doctors office or HR leaked the contents, they would be sacked on the spot for gross misconduct.

 

[dodo]

How does John know all this information? Isn't it all confidential?

The report given to the GP would be strictly confidential and not disclosed to anyone, so how could that be libel? Sick certs are usually generic in nature and do not disclose much detail. they would also be strictly confidential. So I don't see where there would be libel here either? If someone in the doctors office or HR leaked the contents, they would be sacked on the spot for gross misconduct.

John knows because Jane is unstable and told him and showed him the letter when drunk

 

[Leo]

John knows because Jane is unstable and told him and showed him the letter when drunk

Counsellors don't deal with establishing facts, just how Jane's experience of them is affecting her health. What exactly did the letter say?

 

[dodo]

Counsellors don't deal with establishing facts, just how Jane's experience of them is affecting her health. What exactly did the letter say?

the basis of the letter is that John who returned to the family home in last few months due to Jane's drinking which is causing serious issues to their children is having a detrimental impact on Jane's health. Stating due to John back in the house is casing this stress. John agrees it is causing her stress that he is back in the family home but John is doing nothing in terms of abuse, just been there looking after his children is the issue.

 

[Leo]

I see no suggestion of libel whatsoever there.

 

[Peanuts20]

the basis of the letter is that John who returned to the family home in last few months due to Jane's drinking which is causing serious issues to their children is having a detrimental impact on Jane's health. Stating due to John back in the house is casing this stress. John agrees it is causing her stress that he is back in the family home but John is doing nothing in terms of abuse, just been there looking after his children is the issue.

So the councilor wrote a letter saying John being in the house is causing Jane stress and John agrees it is causing her stress but for some reason you are asking if it is libel?

There a much bigger story behind this and running to the courts threatening to sue a councillor for stating an opinion that John accepts is correct is only going to exasperate the situation and cost a small fortune.

 

[dodo]

So the councilor wrote a letter saying John being in the house is causing Jane stress and John agrees it is causing her stress but for some reason you are asking if it is libel?

There a much bigger story behind this and running to the courts threatening to sue a councillor for stating an opinion that John accepts is correct is only going to exasperate the situation and cost a small fortune.

John has been accused of psychological and emotional abuse and coercive behavior which is false, the abuse is coming in the other direction from Jane, ie physical & verbal abuse witness by their children . John is not returning this abuse to Jane but rather he is staying quite in any confrontation that Jane instigates which is ongoing. Unfortunately Jane is irrational and this is acknowledged by her children and friends.

 

[Leo]

John has been accused of psychological and emotional abuse and coercive behavior which is false,

That's very different to what you said was in the letter, but stating a person is accused of something is quite different to a stating it as fact.

If you want a clear answer on whether there is potential libel, you need to be clear on what exactly the letter said.

No one here is in a position to judge who is at fault for any of the relationship issues, but it sounds like John and Jane need to work out alternative living arrangements so they can live apart.

 

[Baby boomer]

John and Jane have some choices here.

A) enter mediation and hammer out an agreement. Cost will be less than 2k.

B) fight a full on divorce battle in the Circuit Court. Cost approx 20k and upwards

C) sue for defamation in the High Court. Cost approx 100k and upwards

Advice is hardly necessary.

 

[dodo]

John and Jane have some choices here.

A) enter mediation and hammer out an agreement. Cost will be less than 2k.

B) fight a full on divorce battle in the Circuit Court. Cost approx 20k and upwards

C) sue for defamation in the High Court. Cost approx 100k and upwards

Advice is hardly necessary.

B) Is currently underway and chance hopefully not to go high court but only time will say, but I aware that is possibility especially in current climate

 

[peemac]

You can be quite certain that the GP is fully aware of Jane's propensity to say things.

They see it every day especially when dealing with issues around mental health and alcohol.


I would suggest to John that he writes to the GP with a "commentary" about how Jane does things

The GP cannot reply, but it can be invaluable.

Jane probably has some more deep rooted issues. She may not be an alcoholic, but may be using alcohol for self medication.

 

[dubdub123]

From my experience of divorce proceedings, there is free reign to make wild accusations and to put in writing absolute untruths..
After reading such fantasy, which outlined serious mental health issues that I had not experienced, I basically put it aside. It was only taking away from the real points and stalling progress.

There may also be things totally unnecessary to document that have some level of truth.
One of the most upsetting things I had to endure was when my exes solicitor put in writing about decades old sexual abuse that I endured (at the very minor scale but extremely distressing none the less). At that stage, none of my own family were aware, yet I had to read through this with my solicitor and barrister. It was totally irrelevant and never discussed again, but added in vindictively to cause hurt.
Id say to John keep his eye on the big picture stuff and dont get dragged into this. I would think writing to her GP is a big no no...it actually appears quite controlling and could increase tensions.

Tell john to focus on his kids and preparing for his divorce. Try not to engage with Jane at all when possible if shes acting erratically.

 

[itsovernow]

An absolutely fascinating case reported in The Irish Times last week about a father who refused to let his wife's false allegations rest and brought her to the High Court to get it to make a judgement:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...t-husband-not-the-truth-judge-finds-1.4836056

Instructively, he evidently had sufficient money to bring the case to the High Court (approximately 98.5% of all judicial separations and divorces are decided in the Circuit Court, according to Carol Coulter on p. 4 of Family Law Practice, based on official 2006 figures). God knows what's happening for the 98.5%/plebs in terms of allegations in our highly secretive family law courts. There should be prison sentences for such people, who not only destroy innocent men's lives but undermine (at least in theory!!) the legitimacy of women who have been abused.

 

[Purple]

Not real names, divorce process started

If an ex partner Jane was seeing a counsellor for stress, depression , bereavement etc Jane is an Alcoholic.
If the counsellor put in writing to help Jane get a sick cert based on the things Jane said happened , such as psychological and emotional abuse and coercive behaviour by her ex John which was false and no garda or legal complaints ever made. All hear say from Jane.
Adult children aware none of this happened
If this letter was brought to the GP to help with getting the sick cert and therfore giving to Jane's employer. What grounds does John have in this matter.
Is this lible?

Having been through a long and acrimonious divorce in which appalling allegations were made against my including child abuse and domestic violence I can say that it is an indescribably difficult thing to get through. I think that there must be a strong link between these situations and male suicide. All "John" can do it get thought it and maintain his dignity and integrity. In my case my children have little or no relationship with their mother and spend nearly all of their time with me. The older ones live with me and the youngest wants to. I also have an excellent relationship with my former in-laws. That is what matters and that is what people will see and they will form their opinions based on the facts.

"Jane" needs her support network and needs to vent. She is still the children's mother and that should temper John's anger, understandable that it may be.

The Family Law courts hear this stuff every day and put very little store in it. They are interested in the financial welfare of the children and, where income and assets allow, an equal division of the loot. Jane won't get her "day in court" where she gets to tell a Judge what a terrible person John is. That only happens on Judge Judy.

 

[Purple]

John and Jane have some choices here.

A) enter mediation and hammer out an agreement. Cost will be less than 2k.

That requires two rational and reasonably reasonable people.

B) fight a full on divorce battle in the Circuit Court. Cost approx 20k and upwards

€20k each and upwards would be more like it.

C) sue for defamation in the High Court. Cost approx 100k and upwards

Pointless though because even if jane repeats the accusations under oath perjury doesn't seem to be a crime in this country.

 

[dodo]

Having been through a long and acrimonious divorce in which appalling allegations were made against my including child abuse and domestic violence I can say that it is an indescribably difficult thing to get through. I think that there must be a strong link between these situations and male suicide. All "John" can do it get thought it and maintain his dignity and integrity. In my case my children have little or no relationship with their mother and spend nearly all of their time with me. The older ones live with me and the youngest wants to. I also have an excellent relationship with my former in-laws. That is what matters and that is what people will see and they will form their opinions based on the facts.

"Jane" needs her support network and needs to vent. She is still the children's mother and that should temper John's anger, understandable that it may be.

The Family Law courts hear this stuff every day and put very little store in it. They are interested in the financial welfare of the children and, where income and assets allow, an equal division of the loot. Jan won't get here "day in court" where she gets to tell a Judge what a terrible person John is. That only happens on Judge Judy.

Thanks for information and John will take onboard what you said and glad to hear a good ending in your situation.

 

[dodo]

That requires two rational and reasonably reasonable people.

€20k each and upwards would be more like it.

Pointless though because even if jane repeats the accusations under oath perjury doesn't seem to be a crime in this country.

Tks for very good points