Coronavirus social welfare payment extended

ATC110

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258
Received a written reply today, postmarked Waterford, to my request for a review of the weekly rate.

The outcome of the review is I will remain on the lower rate.

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

There is no return address on the letter and it's signed the "PUP Rerate Team".

There is also no invitation to submit 2019 tax return details.

Has anyone had a similar letter or have they been invited to submit 2019 details?
 

finny

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Messages
52
Received a written reply today, postmarked Waterford, to my request for a review of the weekly rate.

The outcome of the review is I will remain on the lower rate.

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

There is no return address on the letter and it's signed the "PUP Rerate Team".

There is also no invitation to submit 2019 tax return details.

Has anyone had a similar letter or have they been invited to submit 2019 details?
We filed my husband's income tax return and sent it to the PUP Rerate team two weeks ago. We received the same response by email. I then replied asking for details of the appeals process. That same day my local TD received a response which contradicted the PUP Rerate team's reply. it said: "
2018 is only reviewed for self-employed records if no details are found in both 2019 and 2020.
In the case of XXXXX there were no earnings recorded for him in 2019 or 2020. The Revenue Commissioners has confirmed that Mr XXXX’s income in 2018 was €XXXX over 52 weeks. This gives him a weekly average of €XXXX. The PUP rate was therefore rerated to €203 per week based on the information available for 2018."


We then forwarded a copy of the letter to the PUPRerate team asking them again to consider 2019 information. No response yet.
 

Baby boomer

Registered User
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273
Is there anything available that sets out the precise rules of the PUP scheme? There are guidelines on gov.ie but these amount to little more than a few bullet points. Plus, they have changed on a number of occasions. There doesn't appear to be anything like the operational guidelines that are published for every other social welfare payment.
 

finny

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Is there anything available that sets out the precise rules of the PUP scheme? There are guidelines on gov.ie but these amount to little more than a few bullet points. Plus, they have changed on a number of occasions. There doesn't appear to be anything like the operational guidelines that are published for every other social welfare payment.
No there is not, probably because it hasn't had a statutory footing until this past week or so. But it is totally unacceptable. I have asked for the appeal process and no response. Usually, you only have a certain amount of time to appeal a decision by a social welfare officer. But you must be notified of this deadline. I doubt there are any procedures at all yet and the PUP Rerate team seem to be doing what they want based on "guidelines" from the DEASP.
 

Dinarius

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460
I heard on the news today that recipients of the PUP payment must again confirm their eligibility for the payment by next Monday to continue receiving it.

I have already confirmed my eligibility once. But, I presume this new requirement is because the payment has since been extended.

Can someone please provide a link to where I can confirm my eligibility? (The links I have are not working.)

Many thanks.

D.
 

Dinarius

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460
Ps. I can find where I can apply for the payment.

But, I can find nowhere that I can confirm continued eligibility.

If the site where one can apply is also where one can confirm continued eligibility, it doesn't say so.

Thanks.

D.
 

finny

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Messages
52
Update for anyone interested. We finally heard back from PUP Rerate team with a favourable decision today after 6 weeks of correspondence. They are reinstating my husband to 350 and paying him arrears. They said that they will take the more favourable 2019 income (we filed the 2019 income tax return (didn't pay the tax due yet) a few weeks ago and sent it to them) into account which gives him an average weekly income above 300 p/w.

For anyone arguing their 2019 income was more and should have this taken into account instead of 2018 it might be an idea to file your return and send it to the PUP Rerate team. The letter concluded, "the Department regrets the disruption to your entitlements". As he works in the events industry and is likely to be on the PUP for some time this is a huge relief for us financially.
 

Dinarius

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460
I received a reply to my re-rating request (I didn't submit 2019 accounts) that included the following line... "As the Department has identified you as an employee, it is basing its decision on the more favourable outcome of either the 2019 or 2020 tax years."

I have been, principally, self-employed for almost 35 years. I have on occasion done some teaching and tutoring, never earning more than €1000 in a given calendar year. So, it's tiny money in the greater scheme of things.

How they deem me to be an "employee" is beyond me. They have access to 35 years of returns.

I've asked my accountant to look into it.

My 2019 accounts would definitely get me over the threshold. So, I may submit those.

D.
 

ATC110

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Messages
258
I'm hearing a lot about eligibility confirmation for the PUP and last Friday 14th August being the deadline.

I confirmed my eligibility on 1st July and was not asked to confirm it again.

Was a second confirmation required?
 

finny

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Messages
52
I'm hearing a lot about eligibility confirmation for the PUP and last Friday 14th August being the deadline.

I confirmed my eligibility on 1st July and was not asked to confirm it again.

Was a second confirmation required?
No a second confirmation wasn't required.
 

Dinarius

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460
I submitted my 2019 accounts on 18/08/2020. Unlike my 2018 accounts, the 2019 accounts would make me eligible for the €350 payment.

I replied to Welfare.ie email refusing me on the grounds that I was now eligible for re-rating based on the 2019 accounts. This email was sent on 20/08/2020. To date, I have had no reply.

In addition the closing date for any payment applications is September 17th.

Also, there are no manned telephone numbers that I have tried in Welfare or in Revenue.

Anyone have a number that was answered, instead of being directed to their website?

Anyone had any success with re-rating?

Thanks.

D.
 

ATC110

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Messages
258
They are reinstating my husband to 350 and paying him arrears. They said that they will take the more favourable 2019 income (we filed the 2019 income tax return (didn't pay the tax due yet) a few weeks ago and sent it to them) into account which gives him an average weekly income above 300 p/w.

For anyone arguing their 2019 income was more and should have this taken into account instead of 2018 it might be an idea to file your return and send it to the PUP Rerate team. The letter concluded, "the Department regrets the disruption to your entitlements". As he works in the events industry and is likely to be on the PUP for some time this is a huge relief for us financially.
Hi Finny, Can I ask how long it took for the DEASP to pay the arrears due and whether you received the correct amount? TIA
 

ATC110

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Messages
258
My 2019 accounts would definitely get me over the threshold. So, I may submit those.
Hi Dinarius, Can I ask if you were successful in getting a PUP rerate and how long it took for the arrears to be paid?
 

Dinarius

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Messages
460
Hi Dinarius, Can I ask if you were successful in getting a PUP rerate and how long it took for the arrears to be paid?
Hi, I received an email confirming my successful re-rating within a week of asking for it - the email arrived on 17th November last.

The email also mentioned that I would be paid arrears "...in the near future."

As of today, I have received no arrears.

D.
 

ATC110

Frequent Poster
Messages
258
Hi, I received an email confirming my successful re-rating within a week of asking for it - the email arrived on 17th November last.

The email also mentioned that I would be paid arrears "...in the near future."

As of today, I have received no arrears.

D.
Similarly I received a rerate confirmation the next day (16th December) after submitting 2019 income details from Revenue and the next payment was the rerated amount.
I had included an arrears calculation in my request. The DEASP stated these "we have taken the decision not to address the rerated arrears customers until January. These customers, including you, will be dealt with on a systematic basis to place them on the correct rate and to authorise relevant rerated arrears".
 
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