Contractor rights: contracted to deliver the papers each morning (363) days a year.

Guys,
My Dad is contracted to work for a large Irish newspaper to deliver the papers each morning (363) days per year.

His morning starts about 5.15am and IF the papers are in on time he may finish about 9.30am. More than often this is not the case and he has been finishing at 10, 11 and even 12 some days.

He has been doing this job full time for 10 years, and was covering the Sunday only run for over 20 years.

He supplies his own van and fuel, he get a per mile payment.

Over the last 10 years the number of drops have increased by 19, the bulk size of the papers have nearly doubled and the number of bundles been delivered has trebled, but the mileage increases, the last been 3 years ago, have been very very poor.

My Dad is in his sixties, he needs this job to keep "things going", he loves his job, be it unsociable and has a real fear that if he pipes up looking for an increase that he can be let go at their will.

My query is really does he have any rights, should he be entitled to a mandatory increase per year or even how, in the nicest way possible could he try and lever more money out of them, considering the price increases in fuel over the last 3 years he really needs it, not to mention deserve it.

He covers roughy 130 miles per day, he also now has to deliver books to schools, has magazine, special books etc which he get nothing for as they are "on your route".

Any advice we really would appreciate as he needs to change his van, as his 1998 hiace can no longer handle the bulk and he needs to make a decision on where he is going with this.

Thanks in advance

Re: Contractor rights

Is there a trade union or trade association for this group of contractors?

I know that siptu organises certain taxi drivers so perhaps they might organise self employed contractors.

I seem to remember a similar case involving self employed "contractors" who delivered cement and quarry products a few years ago.

I can't see how he has any rights as he appears to satisfy the definition of a contractor rather than an employee. It is a business arrangement and unless he knows that they will not find anyone else to take the route then he has little leverage.

No Union lads, yes he does seem to have no leg to stand on.

I would have thought that maybe he could have something like swatters rights or something

Any ideas of a good way to approach a raise

I know somebody who delivers phone books on a similar "contract" basis , and after paying for diesel etc the pay would work out at very little, but thats life and business.... there are plenty of others who will take the work if he does not. Not everyone can enjoy civil service type pay and conditions in this world.

rabbit said:

there are plenty of others who will take the work if he does not. Not everyone can enjoy civil service type pay and conditions in this world.

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The OP's inquiry refers to contracted employment. Nothing to do with P Service employment. Some PS employees do not get paid a lot either-I am talking lowest clerical grade, which makes up the majority of PS employees. These jobs have their downsides too and dont suit everyone.

In my view the fact the contract is only for 363 days, means that there is always a break from year to year-so no continuity of employment or, and the rights that accrue from that.

I have heard of cases where contractors are deemed to be effectively full-time employees, due to the nature of their contracts. I've no idea whether this would apply to this case, so I guess you'd need advice from a good employment solicitor to take this further. I'm pretty sure that there is no guarangee of increases under a contract arrangement.

Re: Contractor rights: contracted to deliver the papers each morning (363) days a yea

RainyDay said:

I have heard of cases where contractors are deemed to be effectively full-time employees, due to the nature of their contracts. I've no idea whether this would apply to this case, so I guess you'd need advice from a good employment solicitor to take this further...

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... or perhaps someone in a SIPTU or other trade union branch may be willing to help on a voluntary basis, even if the person in question is not a union member.

As per RainyDay. Who pays and what Class PRSI is he paying?
The problem is joining a union/ kicking up a fuss will up set his employer more than just asking for a few more bob.

Towger

well thats the crux of it, he wants/needs to ask for a per mileage increase but has a fear that they will just tell him to PFO and get rid of him, he cannot afford to lose the job, even if it is poor enough, as he is not "qualified" skilled and would find it very hard to get employment again

The distinction between contractor and employee is not black and white. There are a number of tests used by for example the Employment Appeals Tribunal to determine this. A good starting point to get a feel for this is the revenue guide ([broken link removed]). After reading this, I would suggest getting an opinion from a lawyer or a trade union official on whether there is any basis for your Dad to argue that he is an employee.

Would his own Solicitor know this??

He is just afraid that if he rocks the boat he will be hung out to dry, but I think that they are really takin advantage of him

Re: Contractor rights: contracted to deliver the papers each morning (363) days a yea

yop said:

Would his own Solicitor know this??

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As suggested above, he needs a solicitor with expertise on employment issues. Is his own solicitor an expert in this area?

Luternau said:

Some PS employees do not get paid a lot either-I am talking lowest clerical grade, which makes up the majority of PS employees. These jobs have their downsides too and dont suit everyone.

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Of course all jobs have their downsides and dont suit everyone. Some jobs have more downsides than other jobs though. The person I know who was contracted to do deliveries in his van only just made the minimum wage after paying for diesel etc - and if he had an accident or had a puncture or breakdown in his van it was in his time and his problem.
So there is pay and there is pay. The original posters dad who had / has to deliver the papers each morning (363) days per year, (His morning starts about 5.15am ) does not have an easy job, but I know others in a similar position, who quite frankly cannot either afford to give up such jobs or get better jobs.

If he can establish that is is an employee - and that is something that is determined on a case by case basis - then he has absolute entitlements to paid holidays, minimum wage, maximum working hours etc. Rocking the boat is another thing - even if he can establish employee status, the "employer" may take action to end the relationship. If he is an employee this could be an unfair dismissal, but those cases can take 12 months or more to be heard - in the meantime your Dad is not earning and may only receive a small award even if he wins. Plus you could expect that a big company who presumably has many contractors with similiar arrangements will fight it tooth and nail. Again I would recommend taking expert advise on this preliminary issue of whether or not he is an employee - I am not sure an ordinary high street lawyer would be the right person. Specialist employment lawyers charge so if you can track down a friendly union official you may be able to get an opinion that will help you to decide if you want to pursue the issues.

Thanks guys, now to find a Union official