Community welfare officers (CWOs) average €300/child on communion grants.

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I've seen it all now. It would make a good April fools joke if it wasn't so sad.

Is there any wonder we're spending €20bn on social welfare?

Basic payments are only the half of what's paid out when you look at rent allowance, fuel allowance, back to school allowance, communion allowance, bereavement grants, etc

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/

When you consider the acres of newsprint on Michael Fingleton's €1m bonus (completely justified uproar), why aren't we up in arms about a payment over three times the size incurred every year. In three years since he pocketed the bonus, ten times the amount has been squandered by the state on bling and fake tans for a one day hooley for 8 year old kids of people who are out of work. This is simply outrageous.

The sad thing is how cavalier the people in charge of such payments are about throwing this kind of cash around whilst the rest of us toil away paying extortionate taxes in complete misapprehension of how the social welfare budget is spent.

We pay €500m p.a. in rent allowance (http://www.ronanlyons.com/2011/11/29/rent-supplement-time-for-taxpayers-to-use-their-market-power/). It's clear to anyone with a brain we could immediately cut at least €100m off this bill without endangering the chances of social welfare tenants from finding accommodation (probably more given the property overhang) and yet the targetted saving is a measley 4% of the bill.

Why has nothing happened on these things? Because the people in charge of these "schemes" could not give a toss about squandering tax revenues. If you earn above €33k and work an hour's overtime from 6 to 7pm, you get paid from 6.00 to 6.28. You're busting your ass from 6.28 to 7pm to pay communion benefit, over inflated rent supplements and all the other crazy handouts no one in charge has ever cared to sort out (maybe one is not as uptight about the unfairness of it all when one is already on the bus home at five past five).

It'd be funny if it wasn't true.

This should be completely scaled back by the church and the parents. I see no reason why the children cannot receive their first holy communion at a regular morning mass in their local church with their classmates and parents. They could wear their regular school uniforms possibly covered by an alb ( a white cape type garment as worn in other countries )
What is the need for all the fuss. I just dont get it.

I can't believe people are up in arms that it's been cut back to just over €100. That's still more than enough to clothe a young child in clothes appropriate to the day.

The excesses around birthdays, Christmas, Communions, Confirmations and Debs..not to mention "leaving cert holidays" these days totally sicken me. I'm only in my early 30s but can't understand how things got so out of control. I guess I should include weddings but I've noticed that that was one of the areas that people started cutting back on much earlier in this recession.

We had the quite surreal situation of Sinn Fein complaining that the government if reducing a grant which is completely discriminatory, as it is given to members of one religion only, and the Catholic Church spokesman saying that people should spend less on communion

Just another example of one of the benefits of a state sponsored religion.

This has nothing to do with religion or Catholicism. The clergy are horrified with the circus of excess that First Holy Communion has become and many priests and bishops have spoken out against it in the media and locally, only to be decried as 'spoilsports' by their usual critics.

The ridiculous Communion Grants are all to do with the naked political vote buying regime of Bertie Ahern and his chums, that we (not they) are paying for.

Mary Lou McDonald is happy for her party to shut schools throughout Northern Ireland in a dubious attempt to save money but wants this sort of wilful waste to continue in the Republic. I wonder why?

Our local priest at least has appealed on parents to scale back on the circus. Many of the parents I know (not all of them, obviously) have no intention of spending anything like that on FHC, I would hope to get everything for her for less than €100, and to use as much as possible for her sisters.

Was there as much fuss years ago? I made my communion back in the 70s...

I must have been hiding under a rock for the past few years because I never knew such a grant existed. I couldn't believe my ears yesterday. Absolutely shocking to say the least.

T McGibney said:

This has nothing to do with religion or Catholicism. The clergy are horrified with the circus of excess that First Holy Communion has become and many priests and bishops have spoken out against it in the media and locally, only to be decried as 'spoilsports' by their usual critics.

The ridiculous Communion Grants are all to do with the naked political vote buying regime of Bertie Ahern and his chums, that we (not they) are paying for.

Mary Lou McDonald is happy for her party to shut schools throughout Northern Ireland in a dubious attempt to save money but wants this sort of wilful waste to continue in the Republic. I wonder why?

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Well said.

The Community Welfare Officer pays out for some amount of stuff, usually to the same people year in year out:
- Santa Claus gifts
- bills runs up in local grocery shops
- upgrading of white goods even if not broke
- upgrading of furniture even if in good condition
- help to buy suits for 'interviews'
- cash towards school day outs
- cash for top of the range TV's and entertainment systems (to keep the kids out of trouble!)
- computers and internet access (for the kids and their school work!)

I'd heard of this communion grant a few years back. The same people in the free houses, in their own local area of course, are the same people who are with the Community Welfare Officer a couple of times a month.
And a lot of them manage a decent social life as well as smokes every week also.

the Troika have a long way to go to get this place in order before they go home (if they ever do)

As said above, why can't the children wear their school uniforms and if wanted, they can get some kind of gown to wear over it. Just a very simple cheap gown and everyone wearing the same.
Uniforms on their own is just as good too

Not sure what was up with Joe Duffy yesterday, was in foul humour yesterday, insulting his callers and said this gown suggestion was like taking Ireland back to the thirties.

T McGibney said:

This has nothing to do with religion or Catholicism. The clergy are horrified with the circus of excess that First Holy Communion has become and many priests and bishops have spoken out against it in the media and locally, only to be decried as 'spoilsports' by their usual critics.

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Well said

For information:


These payments come under the heading of Exceptional Needs Payments, part of Supplementary Welfare Allowance (SWA):

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/Sup...s/default.aspx

Expenditure is as follows:

SWA = 951m

of which Exceptional Needs Payments = 70m

Back to School clothing and footwear = 77m

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/Rese.../2010stats.pdf

Would it not be better to leave it totally up to parents to finance what they want with no grant of any kind?

More info:

Some more details on Exceptional Needs Payments:

Housing = 27m, esp new furniture and rent deposits

Clothing = 14.5m

Prams / buggies / cots = 2.1m

Note that these payments are nothing to do with the Church.

They are focussed on the sacrament.

It's the parents who are focussed on the clothes, party, etc.

Firefly said:

Would it not be better to have religion taught outside of school entirely and leave it totally up to parents to finance what they want with no grant of any kind?

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This issue has nothing to do with religion in schools, so I don't see the point in pretending otherwise just to allow you have a swipe at it.

Yes I agree its an absolute disgrace... For me it should be scrapped and all schools should have garbs for the children to avoid one out blinging the other with fake tan, dresses etc etc..

Well said Delboy on the Troika... If this is what my hard earned money is going on then I give up...

T McGibney said:

This issue has nothing to do with religion in schools.

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My 2 cents ..

When children are brought through the religious preparation in school for their first Holy Communion, the sole focus for parents can be the social dimension, making the day an event.

If the schools left the preparation to the parents, the parents may be more engaged in the sacrament. Ideally, that might dampen the enthusiasm for the event, and focus more on the sacrament.

Also, in a vox-pop on RTE Radio yesterday, from IIRC Galway, more than one person mentioned 'parents wanting to give their children the best'. IMHO, that should be 'parents wanting to give their children the best that they can afford'.

My 2 kids have each made their first Holy Communion and I've become desensitised to stories of excess. One family, whose daughters are two years apart, spent approx. €800 on each dress, and their means are modest.

polo1 said:

.. all schools should have garbs for the children to avoid one out blinging the other with fake tan, dresses etc etc....

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I know of one parish in Bray that does this. However that doesn't stop the 'fake tan bling'. They do all of that, then put on the garb over it .

Firefly said:

Would it not be better to have religion taught outside of school entirely and leave it totally up to parents to finance what they want with no grant of any kind?

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You quoted me but that wasn't realy my point at all

This thread is about something else