Chiropractor, osteopath, physio, or thai masseuse?

anyone (wherever they live!) is committing a criminal offence if they practice as an osteopath unless trained by an accredited training institute and State Registered!

Hi Marie - Unless I'm missing something really obvious, the text you quote from the website above specifically relates to practicing in the UK only, i.e.

As a result it is a criminal offence, liable to prosecution, to describe oneself as an osteopath in the UK unless registered with the GOsC.

So it has little real relevance for Irish osteopaths or their patients. There is nothing to stop me starting up an osteopathy practice here in Dublin tomorrow - or am I missing something?
 
"PS. Painkillers are great, I won't hear a word against them"

Be very careful about using painkillers as they can lead on to stomach problems.

I have also suffered with my back down thru the years and a friend gave me this advice because he found out too late about the stomach problems that they cause.
 
Hi Marie - Unless I'm missing something really obvious, the text you quote from the website above specifically relates to practicing in the UK only, i.e.

Quote:
As a result it is a criminal offence, liable to prosecution, to describe oneself as an osteopath in the UK unless registered with the GOsC.


Rainy - It must be my lack of clarity and I'm puzzled as to what is so puzzling. A reservation and anxiety was initially expressed initially by ClubMan and now by yourself in your recent posts, around how to distinguish a qualified from an unqualified osteopath. Osteopathy is a State Registered profession with accredited trainings and qualification (letters after name, framed certificate displayed on waiting-room wall and they appear on the registration list of their professional body - wherever they live and irrespective of where they practice.

The concern you raise is whether the conduct of an osteopath practising outside the UK is regulated by the GOC. The answer to that is "I don't know"! There are regulatory bodies in all those countries which offer these professional trainings and presumably they follow the practitioner to wherever s(he) practises. This is the case with my own profession.

C'mon Rainy.....visiting an osteopath is not an ordeal nor is it an act of faith. It is a fast, practical, objective treatment for a physical problem not a rendezvous with a trained killer!!!! That URL Sueellen has just posted is useful though it has an American ambiance.
 
ClubMan - the basic qualification is BSc degree and they must be State Registered to practice. That applies to Ireland, too! Some of the 8 training institutes in the UK are university based e.g. Middlesex. As a PAM myself (Profession Allied to Medicine) I always introduce myself to a new patient by reciting my qualifications and State Registration and recommend this as a matter of course. I agree with you - there are a lot of charlatains around who have read a couple of books or done an evening class........scary!

The General Osteopathic Council website lists 13 practitioners in Dublin. Implicitly they must be qualified/State Registered to be on the GOC register.


Thanks Marie - I was just curious about this and wary of recommendations to people to avail of services that may not have been regulated or involve suitably qualified practitioners. I did not mean to sound like I was arbitrarily having a go at anybody or any profession in particular. I trust that you can appreciate my circumspection when it comes to certain treatments.
 
Hi Marie - I think the key issue is that while osteopathy is regulated in the UK, afaik it is not regulated here. So I could set up practice as an osteopath tomorrow and start jumping about on patients' backs, and there is nothing the General Osteopathic Council could do about it.

I recall a former colleague with back problems who ended up in hospital for weeks (or possibly months) and required surgery to repair the damage caused by either an osteopath or a chiropractor - can't recall which to be honest.

Is there any reason why you wouldn't recommend the local GP as the first port of call for someone with back problems?
 
Rainy, ClubMan - You've raised a very interesting point I've never considered before as to the scope of registration which I'll try to think about through my own professional membership but which I reckon applies to osteopathy. I can check this with my chappie when I next see him on 30th January.

I'm a State Registered PAM (Profession Allied to Medicine, as we used to be called) State Registered in the UK through the Health Professionals Council (HPC). This must be renewed annually and requires that I have conducted a minimum number of art psychotherapy sessions during the previous year, that I continue to receive appropriate clinical supervision of my work, and that I am actively engaged in Continuing Professional Development. In addition I have a professional registration with The British Association of Art Therapists and publicly listed as a State Registered Art Therapist (available on-line and in reference section of libraries) so the public or any potential patient can check my status. I have union membership (AMICUS). I carry professional indemnity insurance. Not all practitioners/therapists do so but I value protection and safety for myself and my patients for most contingencies which might arise. It is not a substitute for safe ethical working but an integral aspect of self ethical working.

All the above is consequent on being deemed competent after basic training which is currently a University M.A. (formerly Postgraduate Diploma). I couldn't be on either the HPC's list of State Registered practitioners, nor appear in the BAAT list of Art Psychotherapists, without this.

When recently I was planning to relocate back to Ireland and practise in Dublin I contacted my professional body (BAAT) for information. In order to continue to be State Registered if I practised in Ireland (or anywhere else!) the requirements were (1) that I continue to receive clinical supervision, maintain minimum hours of practice, Continuing Professional Development and maintain code and ethics of the British Society of Art Therapists.

However Ireland does not have a professional category "Art Psychotherapist" or "Art Therapist" and practitioners work in less structured and defined arenas compared to the NHS and the education system in the UK. Now that I think about it, it is not clear to me in all of the above whether in another country, under another legislation, State Registration or professional accountability in the country where one trains have the same authority. I know that in the case of medics coming to UK and Australia from (for example) the Indian sub-continent they are required to transfer to the UK body (GMC) and there are conversion requirements. There are also conversion requirements and a lot of kerfuffle with Clinical Psychologists moving from one legislature to another, and they, too, often require to undertake conversion trainings to fit standards.

So I do see the difficulties for the lay person seeking this kind of treatment in Ireland. If there is no established "profession" there cannot be "professional standards" and protection.

Rainy I will certainly talk with Stephen Pirie (my osteopath) when I next see him and ask how this works. He teaches on one of the trainings here. I will also bring this up with BAAT.
 
Regarding Osteopathy and regulation in Ireland.
There is no state register, but we have a voluntary register, the Irish Osteopathic Association, IOA, all of whose members are registered also with the UK state regulator the General Osteopathic Council.

See www.osteopathy.ie

That means we have all been assessed and follow a code of ethics in line with European guidelines. The course is a four year degree or equivalent.

Chiropractors have a similar association and codes.

Both professions are trying to get government to accept us onto the Health and Social Care Professionals Bill that regulates twelve disciplines such as podiatry and physiotherapy in Ireland on a statutory basis.

Hope this clears up any confusion

Karl.
Treasurer IOA.
 
hi

just to clarify Osteopath is a different profession compared to chiropractor.If you want an expert go to osteopath.I have a number for girl in kells co meath who is very good.
 
Hi,

In my experience I would steer clear of Chiropractors. They can end up doing more damage to your back/neck etc which could cost in the long run. I had two recommended to me, both took a full history but never took x-rays or asked if previous CT's/MRI's were done.

Basically I had two prolapsed discs in my neck and one in my lower spine which I was unaware of but the manipulation served only to make my pain worse/possibly even exacerbate the problem. It was only when I eventually decided to see an Orthopaedic specialist did I find out the extent of the problems with my back which had been there for years. I was told I should never have gone to see a chiropractor.

In short if you have back pain best "take the bull by the horns" pay the €150 and go see a specialist.

Thats my "tuppence" worth.:(
 
i'm really confused, why is it ok to discuss osteopathy etc and not natural treatment for psoriasis? i've just returned from an appointment with an osteopath so i'm all in favour of them for the record. i guess i'm just finding it difficult to differenciate "medical issues" from general misc questions.
 
I'm a State Registered PAM (Profession Allied to Medicine, as we used to be called) State Registered in the UK through the Health Professionals Council (HPC). This must be renewed annually and requires that I have conducted a minimum number of art psychotherapy sessions during the previous year, .

There is no PAM in Ireland. The Dept of Health has been in talks with various non-statutorily registered professions for some years. The only stat-reg professions are nurses and medical doctors; professions which have been running their own registration for years are physios & psychologists, but because it's not statutory, it is voluntary.

It doesn't matter what a British organisation says, it cannot say that something is a criminal matter if done in a different country, because that is a matter for that countries' legal system to define. So you can call yourself almost anything in Ireland (bar a nurse or a medical doctor) and there is no law to stop you.
 
Back
Top