Children & cycling

Children & cycling

just heard on the radio that the National Road Safety (?) body have recommended that children under 12 shouldn't be allowed cycle on roads.

Rant follows.....

How the H*LL are they supposed to learn road sense?

Why the H*LL don't they change some rules of the road to make roads safer for cyclists???? In Germany you have leave a gap of at least 1.5 metres when overtaking a bike. Here? haha. I've been knocked off my bike by a car whose wing mirror clipped my handlebar. The driver didn't stop either. I drive too, so I KNOW clipping your wing mirror makes a bang. (didn't clip it on a bicycle though! )

Why the H*LL don't they ensure that cycle lanes are CYCLE lanes? Yesterday, cycling in a bus lane, I got the fright of my life when a car whizzed past in the bus lane. When I caught up with him at the traffic lights (why did he bother to speed??), I pointed out that the bus lane was operational. He looked at me in a puzzled fashion and said "but I was overtaking the lorry". I pointed out the bus lane is NOT an overtaking lane.

when will I let my kids cycle alone? I'm beginning to think, maybe at thirty...... :\

That's a good point Bridget...although I can see some reason for not allowing under 12's out on their own. I remember cycling around when I was 9 or 10. I was more interested in doing stunts than in the traffic!!

Perhaps they shouldn't be allowed out without a parent/guardian with them. That's a good way to learn road awareness.

All quite true about motorists and cyclists, although it should be noted that it cuts both ways.

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-"and said "but I was overtaking the lorry". I pointed out the bus lane is NOT an overtaking lane."-

That's possibly because we have the odd situation where we let people out on the roads *on their own!* who have not passed a driving test!

Up north someone who has not passed a driving test can only go out driving if they are accompanied with a full driving licence holder.

Re: .

From Dublin Critical Mass, a cycling group

What is the National Safety Council?
The National Safety Council (NSC) is responsible for the promotion of safety on roads and water in Ireland. Their attitude to cycling is as follows:

Adults and teenagers should be banned from cycling unless they wear a cycle helmet
Children under 12 should be banned from cycling completely, under all circumstances
Parents should ‘think twice’ before letting older children cycle to school
Why are they such Idiots?
The NSC's board is dominated by the car industry. The AA and the car insurance industry are strongly represented; Cyclists and pedestrians have no representation.

It seems clear that they are misappropriating public funds to promote the private commercial interests of their board members.

The Dublin Cycling Campaign, and many supporters of Critical Mass, are calling for the NSC to be sacked.

Show your feelings!
Critical Mass supporters have suggested massing outside the Dáil at the next Critical Mass (28 May) to demand that the Minister of Transport, Séamus Brennan sack the board of the NSC and appoint a new one that represents the interests of all road users.

Let us know if you agree by emailing dublincriticalmass@yahoo.com

More Information
The NSC website is here. Their attack on child cyclists is here.

Click here to hear the topic discussed on RTÉ's Liveline (fast forward 20 minutes into the show, this link may expire after 25 May 2004)

Re: .

"Adults and teenagers should be banned from cycling unless they wear a cycle helmet
Children under 12 should be banned from cycling completely, under all circumstances
Parents should ‘think twice’ before letting older children cycle to school
Why are they such Idiots?"

The "all circumstances" part of under 12's and the "think twice" part do seem ridiculous alright.
But, what do they mean by the word "banned"? Do they mean anyone found cycling without a helmet would be banned for life???
Wearing a helmet cycling should be treated as wearing a seatbelt in a car. I see no problem with that. I thought it was the law already. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Re: .

This [broken link removed] mentions making helmets mandatory but does NOT say that "Children under 12 should be banned from cycling completely, under all circumstances". Did NSC ever actually make this comment? Did they make it & withdraw it? [I had trouble hitting the NSC website last night, as it happens].

The NSC board members (from the 2002 Annual Report) are;

Mr Eddie Shaw, Chairman.
Mr Finbarr Crowley
Mr Conor Faughnan
Ms Gráinne Harte
Mr Jim Humphreys
Mr Dick Kelly
Ms Bernadette Kinsella
Mr Declan McDonnell
Mr Dick O’Driscoll
Ms Mary Roche

Which of these represent the car industry?

Re: .

The chairman is a former director in Hibernian. Dick O Driscoll is current Managing director of Hibernian. We all know Conor Faughnan represents the motorist in general as an employee of AA. Finbarr Crowley works for the NRA. Jim Humphries is in the dep. of Environment so he does what he;'s told by the biggest influence in there which I doubt is the cycling lobby. The rest are made up of councillors. Don't seem to have a Green party representative either. I think its fair to say it's swayed towards the motor industry. I have no interest really except just did a bit of googling to see who these guys were.

children & cycling

I've taken my youngster (10) out several times to show her how to use the roads; we have to use normal roads to get to a road with a cycling lane. I am nervous as hell because the roads are too narrow to cycle two abreast and so I'm either in front of or behind her. Dunno which is safer! Even when we get to the cycling lane - nice straight road, not too many side roads - there are always interruptions. Parked cars. Cars 'undertaking' other cars which are paused to turn right. MOTORBIKES!!!

We do really need a cyclists lobby with clout.

I'd love to see Dublin City Councillors out on their bikes trying to circumnavigate St Stephen's Green. This should actually be mandatory for all of the members of the Roads Council/Safety Council. Maybe TDs could try it too! Four right turns on a 3 lane road..... I'd love to see them try to change lanes on the Leeson St side where the speed tends to be faster. Anyone who can't cycle, sure I'd give them a carry. :rollin

critical mass

can't get the website. What time Sat 28th?

Re: critical mass

Over the last few years I have noticed the number of Non-Nationals Cycling has shot up dramatically. (Perhaps the number of nationals cycling has declined and I have only just noticed the former).

Now, I have nothing but admiration for these hardworking non nationals and I have similar regard for cyclysts. But these guys (always guys) are out at dusk and dawn with no illumination what so ever, cycling three abreast (remember that rule of the road) and have a suicidal tendency to pull out in front of traffic with out signal or warning. These lads are generally going to or coming from the local factories.

Perhaps their employers should help them come to grips with basic safety precautions and the rules of the road and driving conditions in Irleand (mist, ice, rain and long twilight).

This is not a rant about NN or a rant about cyclysts.

Years ago in kerry I remember remarking at Swedish and German cyclists who had 10ft red flags attached to the bike and were kitted out with all the best safety gear, lit up like fairy lights and who were very carefull on the road.

Every year we used to have foreign students mostly Basques, Spanish, Germans, French and Italians. They used to travel in herds on the bikes. They werent very safety conscious and there were plenty of little accidents and scrapes.

These lads are new road users in Ireland and I think we should faciliated them with basic safety and indcution training for going on the road.

ajapale

cyclists

this subject is obviously dear to my heart...

I agree with Ajapale, but think road safety training should be mandatory in schools for our own nationals. Young guy especially (including couriers) are generally the worst offenders.

Also the laws regarding bike lights should be enforced. My own sister got some minimal fine after being caught without lights - but more often got away with "I didn't think I'd be out so long, Garda" while fluttering the eyelashes.

But one of the problems is that safety equipment for bikes seems to have fashions. Many years ago, we used to have some sort of fold-awy reflective stick that you could pull out and ensured cars gave you a bit more leeway. Can't get them now. Lights that you tied onto your upper arm or ankle. Can't get them now.

The flags are compulsory in Germany for kids riding bikes. Have never seen them for sale here though.

Re: cyclists

Many years ago, we used to have some sort of fold-awy reflective stick that you could pull out and ensured cars gave you a bit more leeway. Can't get them now

Click to expand...

Bridget

I got a present of one of these about three years ago and the impact was simply extraordinary. Cars went to the other side of the road to avoid being scratched. It fell off a few months ago and now car drivers brush up against me all the time.

The majority of drivers look out for danger to themselves instead of looking out for possible danger that they may do. Many drivers, drive straight through roundabouts even if I am already on the roundabout. I am not a threat to them in their iron clad horse, so they actually don't see me.

I had a lovely cycle yesterday from Sandymount out to Glasthule along the seafront. But it is just so dangerous - cars should be banned from this road on Saturdays or Sundays, so that cyclists and pedestrians could enjoy it in peace. Cars are brushing up against you all the time and you have to be careful about not getting potholed. One car started blaring its horn at me, although I wasn't aware that I was doing anything wrong. Was it telling me to get off the road? As I do in these situtations, I pull out in front of the car to stop it overtaking. If I am in the mood, I get off the bike, and ask them if I know them and why are they beeping? She was extremely apologetic and said that she wasn't beeping at me, just saying hello to someone else!!!! And this is what pisses me off about drivers - they don't see the bike in front of them when they blow their horns. A nervous cyclist could have braked suddenly or swerved when they heard the horn.

Brendan

Hi Brendan,

I agree totally with you regarding motorists and cyclists.

It annoys me immensely when I see motorists totally ignoring cyclists when the car is turning left and the cyclist is going straight on and its something that happens all the time. I saw a large car in front of me the other morning who beeped the horn at a parent with young child on seat on back of bicycle and made them stop while he turned left!

There is also one thing that cyclists do which is extremely annoying and that is that they regularly go straight thru red lights. I actually saw a young garda chase after one on O'Connell Bridge some years back and tackled him about going thru a red light.

A very close friend of my brother's was killed some years ago when a lorry hit him on a roundabout and did not even know that he had hit him. It has made me very nervous about bicycles and because of this I would not encourage my kids to use their bikes.

Hi sueellen

I think it's a great mistake to discourage your kids from cycling. There is a risk that they will be injured, but it is massively outweighed by the health benefits of cycling. There are also economic and environmental benefits.

Traffic lights are synchronised for cars travelling at just below the 30 mph speed limit. So they are synchronised against cyclists. I get off my bike at red lights and, if there are no cars coming, I push the bike through just like most pedestrians are forced to crash lights. I do agree that young, male cyclists who speed through passing traffic and red lights are stupid.

Brendan

I have three points to make.

1. When I went to school, we all had to do a cycling proficiency test, like a driving test, when we were about 11 years old.

2. Has anyone seen that road that goes to Harolds Cross from the Tallaght dual carriageway (can't think of the name). It has 'cycle lanes' but they are a joke. You can't drive a normal width car down the road without it impinging on the lane. A bus or truck will completely take up the whole width of the lane.

It's almost as if they had to put the lanes there to comply with some european directive.

3. I wouldn't cycle in Dublin. I tried it once but it was far too frightening. My health is worth more than that.

Thanks for reading.

children & cycling

On the continent children are tought how to behave in traffic.They are trained from as early as 5 years how to use a bicycle,a bobby-car or a scooter. In the first class children are tought how to walk safely , how to cross a road etc...The use of a helmet is mandatory if you want to use the bicycle for the way to school,at least the insurers want it that way.
Lamps on the bike are mandatory,there are fines if you have a defunct. bike ( lamps,brakes,mud/chain guard).
Teaching how to use transport makes more sense then forbidding it.
P.s. Here in Cork we have few cycle lanes but the ones that are there are a joke,some have lamp and sign poles sticking out right of the middle of them(2 or 3 feet wide lanes ), why don't the planners put these poles right on the middle of the road on to the white line-it would make sense ,safe half of the number of the lamp poles at least...

cyclepaths

I forgot to add,

the major use for a cycle path is for cars nosing out of side roads to put their bonnets in so they can start infiltrating into the traffic.... Cyclists are thus forced out into the road.

Have to say, I do go through red lights when they're on a T-junction on a hill... As I sweat up towards Christchurch, I'm dammed if I'm going to lose momentum and have to do a hill start! >: