Childcare on the agenda in the dail today

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Molly

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childcare costs are on the agenda today in the dail. Are the working parents of Ireland in for a tax break or childcare payment subsidy ? How does the tax payer's who dont have children feel about contributing to other peoples childrens care cpsts ?

As a working parent im debating as to whether to continue working full time , leaving my child in someone elses care for 8.5 hours a day and pay the highest childcare cost in Europe or whether to give it all up, and stay home .....

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My wife has opted to give up work for a year or so to look after our first child at home. If the government were to introduce a tax break or similar for a mother working outside the home would it not be reasonable that the mother who decides to stay at home should receive something as well? Our household income is obviously a good deal lower than it was last year but we are happy to "cut our cloth according to our measure". It's hard to see how any tax break/ subsidy could be introduced without discriminating against some other group.
 
yes I agree Carpenter, We would struggle to get by on one income if I do give up work.

sone of the options being looked at today are here:
[broken link removed]
 
Would totally agree with you Carpenter, we are lucky for my wife to work 3 days (a rare thing at her level) so as to have a foot in the jobs market and spend 4 days at home with the boy, it really is a good arragement and this is primarily down to her employer who has been very very supportive, she is also entering a new area which also gives her good exposure to a new set of skills. But when number 2 bear comes along she will more than likely give up work for maybe 2 or 3 years to work in the home. But any tax break that she misses out on could influence our decision the other way. Being an old fashioned sort we would prefer one income and have the other at home, but monetary pressures dont always allow for this.
 
Also, would government intervention in this way drive up the cost of professional childcare?
 
thats my main concern, as soon as some form of child subsidy is introduced no doubt creche fees will probaby increase........
 
If people who have kids get a tax break maybe those of us who choose not to (or cannot) have kids should get a tax break on another aspect of their lifestyle.
 
If people who have kids get a tax break maybe those of us who choose not to (or cannot) have kids should get a tax break on another aspect of their lifestyle
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not wanting to in any way offend or upset anyone who choose's not to or unfortunately cannot have kids, but eh No, I dont think those who dont have children should get a tax break on another aspect of their lifestyle.
 
Molly said:
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not wanting to in any way offend or upset anyone who choose's not to or unfortunately cannot have kids, but eh No, I dont think those who dont have children should get a tax break on another aspect of their lifestyle.
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And why should those people have to pay for other peoples kids?
 
And I answered. As a taxpayer, if I have to pay for other peoples kids then I should at least get a tax break on a lifestyle choice of my own.

But back to the question I asked you - why do you think everyone should pay for lifestyle choice of someone who chooses to have kids?
 
If the govt introduces a childcare tax break, it will lose them the next election. For a start it will only push up prices, same as what the FTB stamp duty cut did last year. Next it will alienate those parents who rely on 'informal' arrangements to have kids minded (ie relatives & the black economy). It will also justifiably alienate those parents who have forgone their careers to stay at home to mind their children.
 
i dont think a response " why should they " answers the question as asked
"what do tax payers think of paying for childcare costs "

Im a tax payer and dont have an issue paying for social welfare costs of the unemployed, single/ lone parents etc etc...

do you, presumably as a tax payer, begrudge contributing to social welfare costs as a whole or just have a problem where its paid in relation to child care / child cost , i.e childrens allowance...
why do you think everyone should pay for your lifestyle choice?
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.... I did'nt choose to have a child, it was'nt a lifestyle choice...
 
Cahir said:
But back to the question I asked you - why do you think everyone should pay for lifestyle choice of someone who chooses to have kids?
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Well most economists would argue that the kids of today will be funding the health and welfare services of the current adult generation in a few decades time and that means you and me!

Anyway I don't think having children (if one is lucky enough to be able to have them) is a lifestyle choice in the same way that indulging in foreign travel or following a particular football club might be. The government tells us that this economy needs a young, skilled educated workforce to drive it. Unless we intend to supply our future requirements for workers by outsourcing from other countries then we should have some tax breaks for parents, no? I'm only playing Devils' advocate here
 

Firstly I would not consider having children a lifestyle choice. There are many reasons for having kids but lifestyle would not be one of them. Your lifestyle changes as a result.

Don't forget that the future workforce, i.e. children, will be the ones who will be partly funding your pension, your healthcare etc. when you have the "lifestyle" choice of retiring.

C
 
Cahir said:
And I answered. As a taxpayer, if I have to pay for other peoples kids then I should at least get a tax break on a lifestyle choice of my own.
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Will your lifestyle choice be paying the taxes that will pay for your/my old age pension in 40 years time?
 
I am a SAHM with three children. DH and i decide when we had children that i would be the primary caregiver, no-one else. I subsequently gave up a well paid, intersting job with pretty good prospects. Fair enough, my choice. But not a financial one, if it was purely a financial decision i would still be working. But there was basically no way we wanted anyone else caring for our children. Why should i be penalised for this? For wanting to give my children the best care I felt i could give them? Surely that is a basic human right? I for one will be very pissed off sah parents be it mums or dads are penalised by the government today. if one chooses to work outside the home and have their children in daycare of whatever kind, then that is their choice, that is a lifestyle choice and should not be funded byt the state. Having children is not a lifestyle choise, but how you choose to rear them is.
 
reddy said:
Having children is not a lifestyle choise, but how you choose to rear them is.
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Agree with you there. My wife has always been home with the kids. We did consider daycare when they were younger but after visiting several we couldn't free ourselves of the notion that they were basically orphanages with no overnight facilities. Not for us so we went without the second income.

There appears to be a lot of couples in our area who place their kids in daycare in order to finance an expensive lifestyle: new cars, big mortgage, holidays etc.
 
unfortunately any topic in relation to this subject always seems to come back to working mums V stay st home mums. Which has been argued to death and the bottom line is everyone to their one, be it you have choosen to stay home and care for your children or you have choosen to go to work and leave your children in someone elses care.
Im not about to get into an argument as to whether its right or wrong to have children in childcare.
I dont think if there was a form of child care subsidy introduced that stay at home mothers are being penalised, as they do not have childcare costs... and Im only speaking in relation to childcare costs, im more that aware of all costs associated with child rearing.

if we take a typical scenario of two working parents, with children in
childcare , you have two incomes paying tax, so is it not fair therefore in this scenario that where you have double income's in a house hold being taxed and both these incomes are supporting childcare then surely a form of tax credit is fair and right.? bearing in mind married couples with a single income are probably paying less tax anyway on income if the earner has the non earners tax credits.

( Im not married so If i do give up work I cannot pass my tax credits to my partner, but thats another days argument )

bottow line is woman are needed in the work place and if a woman chooses to go to work and has to pay childcare costs, then shouldnt this contribution to the workforce be recognised and is'nt it only fair that as a working mother is generating taxable income should'nt some of the tax she is paying go towards
her childcare costs.
 
Bottom line however is that a tax credit won't work. Creches and childcare providers operate in an industry where demand exceeds supply. There is nothing to stop creches from increasing their prices by 20% the day that a 20% tax credit is introduced. (Last year the govt thought it was giving first time buyers a welcome break when it cut stamp duty on 2nd hand houses, lo and behold house prices increased accordingly within a few weeks of the change).

Also, so many parents rely on unregistered childminders or family arrangements so the tax credit won't apply to them. This would be deeply inequitable.
 
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