Child Maintenance - what's a fair payment?

My pregnant girlfriend and I are no longer together . She will be taking 6 months unpaid maternity from work so will get one parent plus half maternity pay. She then intends going back to work 20hrs and with working parent payment plus child allowance will Net approx €2400 is my understanding. Her mother will mind child when working at no charge. She also lives in mothers 2nd house and pays €200pm rent to her.She does not drive and work is 15 mins walk.
I currently get €2850 after tax and pension contributions. per month and also have a mortgage of €1200 a month and need car for work .
While I want to support the child financially I also want money left to be able to do day trips etc with the child. Based on above figures she has €2200 left after rent, I have €1400 left after mortgage and car costs .
She wants me to pay €100 a week leaving her with over €2600 and me with €1000.
Her current job she earns €2200 pm take home so is an increase in wat she was earning.
Is this reasonable to be asked to pay €100 pw plus half of one off costs and occasions such as Xmas .

I don't know what's a fair figure here but I think that focusing on the mother's personal finances when the issue is what you can/should be paying in terms of child maintenance may be a distraction.

The information here may be of some use:
If necessary maybe seek legal advice. If you can't afford to pay for it yourself then maybe see if the Legal Aid Board or FLAC can assist.

Thanks for the reply and I understand where you are coning from. The reason I mention her income is I have seen with a Friend whereby the mother spends loads on the child bringing him on hols, days out , new toys. Whereas my friend can't afford this and he feels he is missing out on doing nice things with his child as can't afford it.So much so the child has commented that the father brings him nowhere nice and so doesnt want to spend weekends with him as can go horse riding or bowling with the mother. So it's not that I don't want to support my child but I want to be able to afford to bring them out for the day somewhere other than the park

jamesy002 said:

Is this reasonable to be asked to pay €100 pw plus half of one off costs and occasions such as Xmas .

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€100 a week for child maintenance is basically nothing at your income level. From a purely financial perspective I'd recommend you take that deal with both hands and pray she doesn't retain a competent solicitor.

• At your income level I'd expect probably around €700 to €900 monthly maintenance if it went to court, ie a quarter to a third of your monthly net.

As a father I'd recommend spending as much TIME as possible with your child as possible. Not the BS of every other weekend and Tuesdays. You'll have plenty of time to make more money, but money will never make you more time.

jamesy002 said:

I want to be able to afford to bring them out for the day somewhere other than the park

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The Zoo, Emerald Park and probably several other places you can get annual membership which results in a negligible per-visit cost if you're using it regularly. Same with leisure club/pool membership etc. You and your friend can set yourselves up with quite a few options for an average of €25 a week or maybe even less.

jamesy002 said:

So it's not that I don't want to support my child but I want to be able to afford to bring them out for the day somewhere other than the park

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Yeah, but the way you present it sounds — or, certainly, will sound to your ex — as though you want to be able to pay for treats and trips in priority to contributing towards food, clothing and other basics.

Your child is already going to benefit from free (childcare) or below-market (accommodation) services provided by your ex's family. I don't think you can use that to argue that you should be excused from bearing your share of the cost of the things they are not providing. I get that you want to be able to provide treats and experiences for your child and spend quality time with them but that has to be in addition to contributing towards the basics, not instead of it. The long-term solution to your situation is to increase your income so that you can do both.

Now that you're no longer with your ex could you, for example, avail of the rent-a-room scheme to bring in a housemate, and get some income frm that? I get that it's a big change in your life, but so is parenthood. And it might be something you would only do for a relatively short time until career progression raises your earnings from work.

Plus you have a window of opportunity here. The child isn't born yet. The matter of treats and trips and experiences that will really make a difference to the child, or to your time together, doesn't really come up for at least another two years.

Also, if you want a decent relationship with the mother of your child- which will help a lot no matter what way you look at it- change as many nappies as possible, take the kid overnight as often as you can as soon as you can.

Your child is going to basically batter their way out of your exes body after 8 months of rearranging it. As soon as the kid is born it's very much your turn to do the heavy lifting.

BIG-notorious said:

At your income level I'd expect probably around €700 to €900 monthly maintenance if it went to court, ie a quarter to a third of your monthly net.

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Just to note that the District Court can only order a maximum of €150 per week (€650 p.c.m. pro rata) in child maintenance but there is no such limit in higher courts. The District Court can also order the payment of lump sums up to €15K.

jamesy002 said:

So it's not that I don't want to support my child but I want to be able to afford to bring them out for the day somewhere other than the park

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That's understandable and commendable but trust me, the vast majority of parenting time is spent on much more mundane things like preparing meals, supervising the homework, getting them to sleep etc. Much more so than on horse riding or bowling etc. Not to mention the early years stuff of just getting them fed, rested, and changing nappies etc...!

€100 per week sounds about right to me. I earn more than twice your salary and was paying €500 per month per child for 3 children. I also paid college and private school fees & Health Insurance on top of that.

I'm a bit lost at the €700-€900 figure. If I was to pay €800 I'd have to live off €150 a week for food , clothes, household bills, medical, other expenses forcthe child . If courts expected me to pay €800 I assume the courts are saying that it costs €1600 a month to raise an infant a month, as mother would be contributing the same?
In relation to free childcare my parents are happy to do this also but she wants it to be her mother. Also , I know this is down to the mother been seen as the primary caregiver. But I did suggest I be the one that goes part time and be the caregiver but this was shot down. This was a serious offer and something I have done before out of necessity. My previous partner passed away when my son was an infant, and unfortunately my son passed away then at 8. So I have raised a child on my own . While I acknowledge a child is expensive it does not cost €1600 a month if childcare and accommodation taken out so just don't understand the large discrepancy in disposable Incomes we will both be left with
I am happy to do the heavy lifting and be there as often as possible There is no issue with me and the mother getting on, and as said happy to pay wat is fair for us both to support the child .I dont want to rent a room out as I will have the child 2 nights a week as soon as mother happy to do so. I don't think the mother or I would be comfortable with another person in the house

I was in the same situation about 15 years ago. Although rent/mortgage wasn't as expensive back then, I was on about €1800 a month after tax etc. I had to agree to €600 per month. My solicitor advised that if I didn't think it was fair, I could go in and have a judge tell me a fair amount, although that's very much like rolling a dice; could end up paying a lot more. There isn't a clear formula to know what a court will order you to pay.

If you have the option of €100 a week, you should jump at it. There'll never be a "right" amount - if you feel like you're struggling to pay, every time you see her with a new phone or clothes, you'll feel like it's coming out of your pocket. But that fades over time, you adjust to the amount you pay each month, and you move on with life. Focus on being a good dad, your relationship with your kid will be all that matters in the end.

johncb said:

My solicitor advised that if I didn't think it was fair, I could go in and have a judge tell me a fair amount, although that's very much like rolling a dice;

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As I mentioned earlier the District Court maximum is €650 p.m.

The way you are looking at this is skewed - parent focused as opposed to child focused.
You're working backwards from what you both will have to live on.
With you implying you shouldn't be worse off than her at the end of the process.
A more mature analysis would see you will also have an appreciating assets/investments - your house and pension on top of what you will have to live on.
You will be getting a full end to end child rearing service from the mother and grandmother including accommodation costs for 100 euro a week. Amazing.
You will be living in the lovely world of fixed costs whereas child rearing costs are anything but fixed. If you really can't get over the perceived unfairness, you could suggest funneling some of 100 into a long term account in the child's name. Best of luck.

I was going to say something quite similar.
You add the child maintenance to her income as if she isn't going to spend it to maintain the child and will not have to use it for the child. She obviously has found cheap solutions to manage the situation on her side. However, as you have put it, you pay into a pension contribution (savings for your future) and paying your mortgage (acquiring an asset). And she has no car, lucky her she can just walk, use public transport (that also as a cost) or once again rely on some help from family. So she is not living independently and is going to manage only because someone else is helping her and your child with accommodation cost well below the market and free childcare.

What amount would you consider fair?

€100 a week is something you really should see as very fair. I do not live with my daughters mother either. I pay €500 a month for childcare, have her 6 out of 14 days. If she needs anything, I pay for it mostly, on the odd occasion we split costs equally. I'm not on much more than you.

I could care less about what my ex earns, I just want my daughter to be looked after and happy. You need to dismiss that way of thinking, it will lead to resentment on your part and you don't need that negativity around your child.

On a side note my daughter is four, she doesn't give a hoot what we do, she just wants to spend time with me, her dad. Even if that's just sitting and playing in the house on a rainy day. You're not going to have to worry about day trips or any of that stuff for a long while yet.

A large chunk of your expenses is your mortgage. She is fortunate that her mum subsidises her home. That may not continue forever and it’s really nothing to do with you and your expenses. You are paying for a house you will own she’s not. You are also putting aside for a pension, she’s probably not doing much on that front with only 20 hours a week working.

The state is also going to provide some cash and later will provide subsidised childcare. I think it’s reasonable to take account of these benefits but not anything her family provide.

As others have said it’s about what the child needs not what you want.

the baby isn’t born yet so don’t think you need worry about trips out for a bit yet. What is expensive for shared custody is the need to double up on baby equipment. So hopefully you’ve a few months to save for that.

If you are stuck for money can you rent a room in your home?

Annieindublin said:

it’s about what the child needs

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On the contrary child maintenance is based on both parents income and outgoings.

DannyBoyD said:

On the contrary child maintenance is based on both parents income and outgoings.

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It's based first and foremost on the best intersts of the child. It takes account of both parent's income and outgoings, but they are not the driving factors.

Not to be unfair to the OP, but he presents his own attitude as being driven by his desire to be able to afford day trips and treats for the child. But the child has much more fundamental needs that this. If this does end up in court, the court won't reckon that the OP's income should be available to finance day trips and treats in priority to sharing the cost of providing those more basic needs.

TomEdison said:

they are not the driving factors

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So far as child maintenance is concerned, yes they are.

And the primary carer in question here is clearly doing their best to keep their outgoings as low as possible; from a legal perspective they would be better advised to show full payments for rent / childcare etc.

And as an aside OP - it is not "the" child, it is *your* child.

Wishing you both every joy in the new baby.

DannyBoyD said:

So far as child maintenance is concerned, yes they are.

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No. In child maintenance cases the paramount consideration is the best interests of the child. The parents' respective incomes and expenditures are factors to which regard is to be had.