Car Insurance Again :)

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wrynie

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Hello, I was hoping for some advise...

My brother was in an accident last week, he was on a dual carrigeway in laois and was over taking a car when suddenly another car drove into the back of him. (my bro is saying that the car appeared miles away when he checked his mirror before overtaking) The other driver is suggesting that my brother accept responsibility, but the advise we've been hearing from people is that this guy is largely responsible as he drove into the back of the car. The Gardai understandably didnt want to make a judgement, but did point out to my brother that he had a witness, a girl he was giving a lift to) We were considering the "fix your own" route, but have found out today that his 5,000euro car is a writeoff as the chassis is damaged. This has led us to consider making a claim against the guys insurance, but we're not sure if its worth the possible hike in insurance. Aslo my brother was drivig on his first provisional with no fully qualified driver and I'm not sure if this is going to be a problem either.

Any advise would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
 
Hi wrynie, To my mind ,I would imagine that the Insurance company might not entertain you brother as he was driving on a provisional without a qualified driver with him . A basic rule of driving when pulling out is to check you mirror to ensure that it is safe to do so and its seems to me that your brother made a bad judgement. . As you probably told the gardai what happened and assuming that they will give evidence if you go to court, I cannot see you win this one.
 
frando said:
Hi wrynie, To my mind ,I would imagine that the Insurance company might not entertain you brother as he was driving on a provisional without a qualified driver with him . A basic rule of driving when pulling out is to check you mirror to ensure that it is safe to do so and its seems to me that your brother made a bad judgement. . As you probably told the gardai what happened and assuming that they will give evidence if you go to court, I cannot see you win this one.
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A basic rule is also to look over your shoulder as well as in your mirror when overtaking, but anyway, this isn't a driving lesson.

Generally, I believe that it is the person who drives into the back of you who is liable, but am not sure in the case of an accident that occurs while overtaking.

As frando said, I'm sure the Gardai are aware of the fact that your brother was driving without a licenced driver at the time (or maybe they aren't?), and so this would invalidate his claim?
 
Hi ccovich, Usually the driver who crashes into the car in front is the one to blame on account that his speed should be such that he can stop in time but in a situation where someone on a dual carriageway pulls out in front of a car travelling (within the legal speed limit ) on another lane ,surely the driver pulling out should be at fault. Who's at fault when a parked car pulls out in front of a passing car? Any legal eagles out there?
 
frando said:
Hi ccovich, Usually the driver who crashes into the car in front is the one to blame on account that his speed should be such that he can stop in time but in a situation where someone on a dual carriageway pulls out in front of a car travelling (within the legal speed limit ) on another lane ,surely the driver pulling out should be at fault.
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Yes, that's what I would have thought as well.
 
I'd advise to make the claim. A similiar incident happened to me about five years ago and there was no problem getting market value of the car (was rear-ended while driving on my own with a provisional license). However I do believe that the guards/insurance companies have tightened up on this?

As regards which party is at fault, it is my understanding that if your brother had pulled completely out into the the other lane and the other party hit him from behind, then it is then the other party is liable not your brother. If your brother saw the other party in his mirror miles off, then this would suggest to me that the other party was speeding and this should be stressed in his statement to the guards. Also it may be important to bring your brother's passenger down to the garda station to have her statement recorded offically if this was not already done at the scene of the accident.
 
Objects in your rear view mirror may be closer than they actually appear.

Btw, was this a dual carriageway (N-road) or a motorway (M-road)?
 
If your brother saw the other party in his mirror miles off, then this would suggest to me that the other party was speeding and this should be stressed in his statement to the guards.

Hi Paul. Her brother THOUGHT the other car was miles ? off. It's hard enough to judge the speed of an on-coming car ,so it's harder to judge one coming from behind. Anyway her brother's opinion is only his opinion and not necessarily the facts.
 
Also, the brother could have been well under the speed limit (hence the need to overtake the car in front?) and the other car at the speed limit.
 
Hi Frando, I accept that opinion is not fact, however, in a case such as this surely the claim would have to be judged and based on both the driver's statements to what happened in their opinion. The brother's claim could be strengthened if supported by his passeneger that he was driving with reasonable care and attention when he was rear-ended from behind. I suppose it all depends on what exactly the brother stated to the gardai on what happened, however I would never admit liability under any circumstances.
 
CCOVICH, I believe that when a person is overtaking a car, they should do so at a speed that is possible to slow down and avoid such a situation as being disscussed regardless of whether they are keeping to speed limit or not. Surely it is not wise to overtake car travelling at 60kph at a speed of 120kph?
 
Hi all, thank you for your responses...

we did seek off the record advise from a local Garda, who reckoned that if it went to court that liabilty would be deemed 20-80 in favour of my brother, but that insurance premiums for both would rocket...this though is before we found out that the car is "unfixable", and so maybe he would be better off putting in a claim.

Yes my brother was over-taking, and so if he pulld out in front of a car you would imagine the damage would be concentrated to one particular side of the car, but it is not. It is slap bang in the middle.

Which suggests to me that if my brother was driving at 60 miles an hour overtaking, this guy had to be way over the legal speed limit, so as not to be able to stop, and to actually damage the chassis of the car even though they were both going in the same direction.
 
My dad's car was hit from behind before by a car that wasn't speeding but it was still written off due to damage to the chassis.

#paul#-when overtaking I would tend to try and do it as quickly as possible, so as long as I was at the speed limit it shouldn't really matter. Even if I slow down, there is nothing to stop someone pulling out in front of me just as I am passing, and not giving me any opportunity to stop-regardless of the speed I am travelling. But it really is impossible to say what really happened as none of us were there, so I guess it is a moot point.

wrynie-did the local Garda have anything to say about the fact that your brother was driving without a licensed driver, and what view the insurance company would take of this fact?
 
well he asked to see his license, so i presume he does. When I arrived, all the Guard said was I dont know who was at fault, but this man (my brother) has a witness, and I have both their statements if ye need them
 
The witness is in your car. therefore she is not 'independant'. question of the licence should not affect the insurance, unless and this is very inportant, driver told insurance co when policy was being taken out that he had a full licence. that is misrepresentation and insurers may well seek recovery of anything they pay out.

I woudl think that you would be very luckey to get 80/20 in your favour. Overtaking is a dangerous manouever, driver admits he saw the other car behind. There is no way of proving speed. If driver thought that other motorost was going too fast, then why did he o/t in the first place? Judges are human as well and if brother is young and other driver is old, then that may well go against brother.

i woudl think that a 50/50 apportionment was more in order.
 
the car he was overtaking was going very slowly, that is why he was over taking. My brother was going past the car on the inside lane when the other guy hit him from behind. Its not like he hit him as my brother was pulling out, he hit him as he was driving by the car on the inside lane. Surely if the car in front is doing 60, and the guy directly behind is doing the same then he wouldnt hit him?
 
Hi wrynie,Even if the guy who hit your brother was moving faster than 60mph ,your brother's judgement was poor when he decided to pull out as he obviously mis-judged the speed of the other guy unless of course the other guy was a maniac who wanted a crash and never touch the brake
 
he pulled out infront of the other guy... even if the other guy was speeding it was his responsibility to spot him coming....

you said he was miles off , presuming he was doing less than 200mph this can't be true , can it ?
 
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