Car crash: liability issue

I was involved in a crash with another vehicle and after the incident the other party admitted liability at the scene, but is now claiming I was at fault.

Basically I was approaching a roundabout and the guy was stopped in the hatch lines in the middle of the road as you approach the roundabout. he had no indicators or hazard lights on so I approached slowly while keeping an eye on him. (He has since claimed he was doing a three-point turn in the hatch lines, is this not completely illegal?)

Anyhow as i drove along slowly he suddenly pulled out directly in front of me with no warning. I beeped, braked and swerved left but as he literally pulled out directly in front of me there was a smash. There is quite a bit of damage to my driver's door and the front driver's side panel and there is some damage to the front left-hand side of his car. The damage to my car would have been a lot worse but for the fact that I actually drove up onto the bank to try and get away from him.

Anyhow he first of all said I was going too fast until I pointed out that I was approaching a traffic control device (ie a roundabout) and was naturally slowing down. He eventually admitted that he just didn't see me before he pulled out. There was a garda down the road dealing with someone and when we went down to him he just said to take each other's details. Never came up to look at the scene.

The guy then told me that the car he was driving wasn't his, said he'd borrowed it from his friend but insisted he was insured although he didn't have any details. He said he was willing for the claim to go through his insurance and we swapped numbers and agreed to phone each other afterwards as he didn't have his insurance details on him.

Then i get a call from him saying that he's told his insurance company he was stationary and i skidded into him. He's claiming I was entirely at fault even though there is no damage whatsoever to the front of my car.

I'm just wondering what the procedure is here. I originally contacted my insurers and told them about the accident and they were happy out because I told them he accepted liability at the scene. They're not so happy since I had to ring them back and tell them he's changed his mind.

Will I be getting visits from investigators/assessors? I really don't want to be held liable for any of this as it wasn't my fault and I think that where the damage is on my car collaborates my story. However I have very little faith in insurance companies. Does anyone have any similar experience?

The damage to your car & his and a good detailled drawing of the location should make it perfectly clear who is at fault.

Did you call the guards to the scene ?

No, there was a garda just down the road, didn't witness the incident, and when we went over to him he just said to take each others' details. Before we left the scene I asked the guy if he wanted to call the garda over in case there was an issue over liability but he said no, that he was happy enough for it to go through his own insurance. I was naive enough at the time to believe him.

Have since learned that as he wasn't in his own car his insurance probably doesn't cover the damage to the car he was driving so in hindsight I'm not surprised he's changed his mind about admitting liability. also have no pics of accident scene because although my car was up on the bank his was blocking the whole lane so he had to move it immediately.

Curious11 said:

... he didn't have his insurance details on him. ...

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Legally, insurance details must be displayed on a disc on the windscreen.

I know mathepac but I figured that as he didn't own the car it wouldn't be that insurance policy that I'd need. Took reg number etc and got his insurance details since then.

the role of the gardai is to ensure all details have been exchanged and not to decide or comment on liability.

kieran160 said:

the role of the gardai is to ensure all details have been exchanged and not to decide or comment on liability.

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But in this case the op now has no proof of where the cars where positioned and no proof the that other driver admitted to moving at the wrong time.

If both of these had been recorded by the guard it would have made things far easier.

jhegarty said:

But in this case the op now has no proof of where the cars where positioned and no proof the that other driver admitted to moving at the wrong time.

If both of these had been recorded by the guard it would have made things far easier.

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Gardai wont record this. They are quite strong in their view on it. They are only there to ensure that all parties have licences and insurances.

To the OP, you should have just taken the details from that cars disc. At least he would then have to give you his own if they weren't correct. He may have had no insurance, but his friends policy would be obliged to pay out a Third Party claim and then recoup their loss from the individual involved.

If I was you, I would pursue the other party directly as your own insurers will step back your no claims bonus until the other guys insurers pay them back. We use a specialist solicitors in our place, Hussey Frasier, to purse the other part legally. Maybe you could try them.

Everyone has a camera on there phone. I know some smart alleck will shout I don't but 99% have a camera on phone. When this happens take lots of pics. traffic stopped ask people around if they witnessed.

Seems to me the gardai could have been more helpful and taken a few statements in his notebook for the sake of 5 minutes.

Personally I'd let my insurance company sort it out, but I'd document the incident in great detail and state to them very clearly that you do not accept any liability for the accident. If the driver had his own fully comprehensive policy then he would possibly be covered for third party claims driving another car with permission. You may also want to be aware of the other party suddenly developing mysterious, debilitating but hard-to-trace medical problems just after talking to a solicitor.

Following an incident a few years ago where a "I'm sorry old chap, my fault entirely" became an attempted claim against me for dangerous driving I now have a disposable camera in the glovebox to document accident damage, any other vehicles, the driver and road conditions.

Good luck with it.

SSE

peteb said:

Gardai wont record this. They are quite strong in their view on it. They are only there to ensure that all parties have licences and insurances.
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This isn't my experience.

I pulled up on the inside lane behind a driver whose car was straddling two approach lanes and who had gone past the white line into the junction a little.
The driver of the car ahead suddenly reversed backwards and damaged my offside panel and door.

The driver hadn't seen me because I was in the nearside rear pillar blind spot and the driver had checked the nearside mirror.
I couldn't open my door and we were stuck at a junction so I called the guards and the driver called somebody to cancel a meeting/lunch.

The Garda and Beangarda arrived and they each asked us separately what had happened and then we talked together.
The circumstantial evidence could have supported a scenario where I ran into the car ahead, apart from the position of the glass fragments so this was good for me.

A few seconds after the drivers friend arrived and I could see by the conversation they had at a distance that advices were being given that could not now be acted upon with any credibility because of the drivers previous admission.

Admittedly this was eight years or so ago but it contradicts your comment and for a very simple reason.
It is possible they saw the scenario differently than I had - it was clear to me the driver was trying to back out of the junction, but reversing like that is an RTA and could have constituted either careless driving or dangerous driving if it had caused injury.

Regardless of this, the Gardaí are primarily there to gather evidence, question witnesses and present files to the DPP or the Courts.
As part of this they may inspect the insurance and tax and NCT discs, but checking details are available is not the limit of their remit.

FWIW

ONQ.

I wouldn't worry about it. It is your insurance company's function to decide who is liable. You are not an accident investigator. Insurance companies have access to such people. By the sounds of it it is straightforward enough. Take plenty of photos of your car. Go back to the scene and try and get a few photos taken from high up (you said there was a bank), print them out and draw out what happened. Do this as soon as you can before your brain gets rid of some of the finer details.

As for him being insured, if the car itself was insured, then claim off the owner. The fact that the driver was not insured to drive the car would be between him and the owner. If he wa insured then it is fine, if not then surely that's a criminal matter.

the gardai only investigate accidents where injury has occured or if there is evidence of dangerous driving, it is the job of the individual and insurance companies to gather evidence etc. the role of the garda is to ensure appropriate information is exchanged i.e names addresses and insurance details.

Happy days people, my insurance company took pictures of my car plus the accident site and sent an assessor out to look at the guy's car... and his insurers have accepted liability. There is justice in the world! Will bear advice regarding taking pictures at scene etc in mind in the future although hopefully I won't be involved in another situation like that ever again. Cheers for the help.