capital Gains Tax on transfer of land

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phanteon

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My father willed his farm to my mother in 1980.My Mother transferred all the farm to me in 1985. Last year it came to light that i had no folio for a 6 acre field.This is because this 6 acre field was never registered in my fathers name although he was the legal owner of it.
The value of this 6 acres in 1980 and 1985 was 7000 Euro. It is now valued at 450,000 Euro.The paperwork for this field was found last year behind a press in my solicitors office.My mother and myself thought all along that she had transferred this field to me and now wants to do so.However to do so now will mean a big capital gains tax bill for my mother.

My solicitor does not accept any blame for his mistake. So no joy there. Any suggestions would be welcome as to minimise the tax bill.
 
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by saying that the paperwork was found behind a press in solicitors office, are you saying that the solicitor did not carry out either your taher or your mother's instructions? Quite simply, that would appear to indicate that solicitor was in some way negligent. Perhaps you should consult another solicitor. If you are in a small town, I would suggest you get advice out of town, in your nearest city as a local solicitor may not wish to put in a claim against a colleague.
 
Yes the solicitor was negligent and i have consulted another solicitor in the same town.
The last thing i want to do is to put in a claim against the solicitor as i think i would be facing an uphill battle and expensive too.
 
If your mother transferred all the farm to you in 1985, and if you have been in possession of all the farm since, and if this includes the 6 acre field, then you are already the owner. The rectification of your title at this stage should not constitute a disposal for CGT purposes. I assume of course that the valuation made at the time of the transfer included the 6 acres.

It does seem very odd that a whole field could be overlooked like this, but it is certainly possible that it could happen in circumstances where the solicitor was not at all negligent. My normal procedure on such a transfer would be to go through all the folios and maps with the client. I would want to make sure that they are satisfied that the maps show all the land. If your former solicitor showed the folios, maps, acreage and valuation etc. to your mother and she pronounced herself satisfied that they were correct, then I don't see negligence. If, of course, he simply said - "I have prepared a transfer of all the land - sign here Mrs. Phanteon" then that might well be a different story.
 
very negligent on Solrs part. follow it up. how could he possibly tell you
his files fell over.
 
Thanks MOB.My mother thought she transferred all farm to me in 1985.
The Auctioneer that valued farm at that time walked all farm including the 6 acre field. He valued farm at 1200 Euro per acre. This figure of 1200Euro was then multiplied by the map acres. This meant that 6 acre field was not included in valuation.
My solicitor probably did go through all maps and folios with us and we did not notice the ommision of 6 acre field.
My solicitor had just recently taken over our affairs from his father and got all my files and moved them into his own office in the same building as his father.
The paperwork for this 6 acre field was not handed over at this time so my solicitor never knew it was part of my fathers farm.
It is only last year when he went looking for this paperwork that he found it in his now deceased fathers office.
 
One way of avoiding the CGT and Stamp charge is to wait until the 6 acres passes by death. Not an ideal way but it does aleviate the problem.

However, on the basis that it has been valued so high i imagine there is a reason behind trying to get the land in your name. Do you intend to sell?

It may be an idea to have an affidavit dran up also by your mother and the solicitor ( who I think is extremely negligent but typically can't be touched!) stating that it was intended the 6 ares were to be transferred in 1985 but that it was over sighted. this should then be presented to Revenue. Should moot it with Revenue first.
 
As a brief aside, I am very dispirited by the speed at which solicitors are presumed negligent on discussions such as this. It now seems clear to me that the solicitor was not at all negligent. There almost seems to be a pattern:


1. Someone posts a problem or query.

2. If there was a solicitor involved, and if there is a problem, there are almost instant presumptions that it is completely the solicitors fault

3. When further information is elicited, it transpires that the solicitor is perhaps not totally at fault, or perhaps not at fault at all.

Maybe there is a similar pattern for complaints about bankers, accountants etc. and I have not noticed it, not being so sensitive to criticism of other service professionals. But is little wonder that solicitors develop such a healthy measure of cynicism. We need it.


addendum: I started this post before that of Ned appeared. I really don't see how any fair minded person could still maintain that the solicitor was negligent: It is now conceded that he 'probably' went through the maps etc. with the client before the transfer. What more is he supposed to do? Is the solicitor supposed to take the map and go out and walk the land himself to be sure it is all covered?
 
My apologies on this - for some reason i did not see the last post by Phanteon - no isult at solicitors meant at all by post.

However - it probably makes the matter easier by doing an affidavitt by mother.
 
Ned_ie said:
One way of avoiding the CGT and Stamp charge is to wait until the 6 acres passes by death. Not an ideal way but it does aleviate the problem.

However, on the basis that it has been valued so high i imagine there is a reason behind trying to get the land in your name. Do you intend to sell?

It may be an idea to have an affidavit dran up also by your mother and the solicitor ( who I think is extremely negligent but typically can't be touched!) stating that it was intended the 6 ares were to be transferred in 1985 but that it was over sighted. this should then be presented to Revenue. Should moot it with Revenue first.
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Land might be zoned for development in the next couple of years which would substantially increase its value. This would lead to a big CAT tax which would be a bigger problem as i have no intention of selling this land in the short or medium term.

I have thought of discussing my case with the Revenue but in the current climate maybe they want all the money that they can possibly get.
 
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