Can a pub refuse to serve someone who is 18?

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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I was in The Long Hall on Friday evening.

The barmaid asked two women for evidence that they were over 21.

I was surprised at this. Is there an exemption from age discrimination for pubs? I had assumed that they could not discriminate against anyone on the basis of age alone, as long as they were 18.

Just to be clear - I am not asking if this is a good idea or not. I just want to know the law. (I Googled it and all the discussions were long letting off steam posts with no concrete information.)

Brendan
 
There is a potential for an age exemption, indeed. See the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, Section 25.

25.— Section 15 of the Equal Status Act 2000 is amended by the addition of the following subsections:

“(3) (a) This subsection applies to the option given under subsection (2), (3) or (4) of section 34 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 1988 to the holder of a licence of any licensed premises to allow a person under 18 to be in the bar of those premises at the times, or in the circumstances, specified in those subsections.

(b) The non-exercise of the option to which this subsection applies shall not of itself constitute discrimination.

(c) The reference in paragraph (a) to section 34 is to that section as substituted by section 14 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003.

(4) If—

(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a specified age which exceeds 18 years,

(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises, and

(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not constitute discrimination on the age ground.
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Thanks Coyote

Just to focus on the relevant bit.

25.— Section 15 of the Equal Status Act 2000 is amended by the addition of the following subsections:

....

(4) If—

(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a specified age which exceeds 18 years,

(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises, and

(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not constitute discrimination on the age ground.
 
Nightclubs can have arbitrary admission rules ,you have to be over 25
You are too old ,
You don't look cool
You are a single male,
You are not wearing shoes.
I think the only legitimate one is that you have too much drink taken.
I know it's slightly off topic but I think pubs and Nightclubs have lots of leeway to refuse serve people
 
joe sod said:
Nightclubs can have arbitrary admission rules ,you have to be over 25
You are too old ,
You don't look cool
You are a single male,
You are not wearing shoes.
I think the only legitimate one is that you have too much drink taken.
I know it's slightly off topic but I think pubs and Nightclubs have lots of leeway to refuse serve people
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Whatever about the other criteria, the requirement to be wearing shoes to be admitted seems reasonable enough. (I appreciate that this is normally used to ban admission to people wearing trainers or wellington boots!)
 
There are differences in denying entry to a premises and refusing service.

A licence-holder / staff-member can refuse service to anyone at any time. The staff-member does not need to give a reason and has the right to ask the person to leave the premises or ask for Garda assistance if they don't.

In refusing sevice, the publican does not have to give a reason, but if they give a reason, they may be asked to defend the decision in court.
 
my recollection from when the equal status act was enacted was that it brought an end to pubs being "over 21s only" or whatever. At the time many pubs took those signs down. I didn't realise the later Liquor act added an exemption; I thought pubs were just chancing their arms.
 
mathepac said:
There are differences in denying entry to a premises and refusing service.
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I know it applies more to nightclubs but the criteria for refusing entry to someone who isn't drunk and dressed appropriately seems a bit dubious.
For example if someone is black or from travelling community they can bring a case for discrimination but it appears nightclubs can discriminate in other areas and not face any consequences.
Of course this isn't just an irish issue and it is much worse in other countries especially Germany I've heard
 
joe sod said:
For example if someone is black or from travelling community they can bring a case for discrimination but it appears nightclubs can discriminate in other areas and not face any consequences.
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Discrimination under law is narrowly defined. If it's not in the Equal Status Act, it's not an offence. Some venues use the dress code restriction to keep out people they might consider undesirable, and they are allowed to do that so long as the don't verge into territory of the nine protected grounds.
 
mathepac said:
There are differences in denying entry to a premises and refusing service.

A licence-holder / staff-member can refuse service to anyone at any time. The staff-member does not need to give a reason and has the right to ask the person to leave the premises or ask for Garda assistance if they don't.

In refusing sevice, the publican does not have to give a reason, but if they give a reason, they may be asked to defend the decision in court.
Click to expand...
One thing's for sure, you never owned or ran a pub.
 
Good for you, but saying you can refuse service to anyone and give no reason for it suggests to me that you don't know the consequences for doing what you said. Pavee point would love dealing with where ever it was you applied your rules in running the pub.
 
noproblem said:
Good for you, but saying you can refuse service to anyone and give no reason for it suggests to me that you don't know the consequences for doing what you said. Pavee point would love dealing with where ever it was you applied your rules in running the pub.
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If you can show that you didn't refuse entry on the basis of any of the nine characteristics protected under Irish law then you're grand.
It's perfectly okay to refuse entry to a disabled Hindu elderly black gay member of the travelling community who is cohabiting but unmarried and grew up in foster care if they are drunk, aggressive, were previously barred for fighting/ stealing etc.
 
I think its a particular issue in Germany they don't need any reason to refuse entry even Elon Musk got refused entry to a particular nightclub there recently.
There was an issue with german nightclubs refusing entry to refugees after the 2015 influx
 
Leo said:
Discrimination under law is narrowly defined. If it's not in the Equal Status Act, it's not an offence. Some venues use the dress code restriction to keep out people they might consider undesirable, and they are allowed to do that so long as the don't verge into territory of the nine protected grounds.
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A client of mine doesn't hire people who smoke. And he is allowed to do so as it is not illegal to discriminate against people's smoker status!
 
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