bulgaria/romania joining eu on 1/1/2007

EU Gives Green Light for Bulgaria, Romania to Join in January 2007

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sofia echo:

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I was looking at property over there last month. Is thins the time to buy?
Once they join the EU will these prices soar?
What are the implications for Tax on rental property over there?

I don't think they will soar but I think good property in good locations will get good growth. If you're interested in buying head out to bulgaria for a trip first. Ignore all the marketing stuff that agents in Ireland have, you can make any development/location look good with a good artist!

My girlfriend and I (she's Romanian) have been given land as a present from her parents. I presume selling land is quiet different to acquiring it in Romania anyone been in this situation before?

thanks

What do you wish to know about selling land in Romania?

I'm married to a romanian girl (my handle will give her name away to your romanian girlfriend ) and we own some land which we bought at the beginning of the year.

We're also involved in selling a large site on behalf of another Irish chap who is a family friend & doesn't speak Romanian, hence our involvement.

So maybe we can answer any queries you have. Can't your girlfriends parents help you?

colm said:

I was looking at property over there last month. Is thins the time to buy?
Once they join the EU will these prices soar?
What are the implications for Tax on rental property over there?

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A COUNTRY JOINING THE EU CANNOT BE THE ONLY FACTOR CONSIDERED WHEN PURCHASHING ABROAD. DO YOU THINK EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY IN BULGARIA WILL INCREASE IN VALUE?

Totally agree with that! The joining of the EU will hardly prove to be any kind of panacea for the woes of the former eastern block countries. Just look at Hungary at the moment.

Hard times ahead for both Romania and Bulgaria, especially the farmers.

Saw a banner hung out today in my adopted home town here in Romania promising....

(1) Citizenship of the United States of Europe
(2) Access to a European standard of education
(3) The right to travel and work throughout the EU

Obviously the people who make these promises have not been reading the 'Opinions' forum on www.bbc.co.uk or paying attention to utterances of the UK goverment on the same site.

Much bile and xenophobic poison in the air prior to Romanias 'glorious' joining of the EU super state.

For the most part those of us lucky enough to still be in Ro (and I'm Irish by the way) are getting on with things as if nothing is happening. My romanian friends & family continue to grow their businesses and buy property (most recently in Hungary in the border regions, the reasons for which I'll explain to anyone who cares to listen), rear their kids, have BBQs and all the other things that Romanian 'gypsies' are not renowned for doing!

I would be interested to hear why you guys are buying up border region property in Hungary.

My friends thinking in buying across the border is as follows...

Once Romania joins the EU there will be no more customs point on the border, just a border police checkpoint with more relaxed rules, thus speeding up transit times.

We live in a city on the Hungarian border called Oradea, a city the size of Cork.

Recently 3 sets of my friends have bought land in Artand, a small village in Hungary, right on the border. It is 8km from Oradea city centre.

One couple bought a 2000 square metre site for 3000 Euro. Another paid 7,500 Euro for a 2000 sqr metre site with a small house on it, albeit in need of repair. Can't remember what the 3 lot paid but the site size was around the same.

To buy a similar sized site on the Romanian side of the border at a comparable distance from the city centre they would be looking at paying around 12 - 15 Euro a square metre or nearly 10 times the price in Artand.

It seems that the Eastern side of Hungary is regarded by hungarians as being an undesirable place to live with a huge demographic shift towards the major urban centres of Debrecen, Solnok and Budapest. Those hungarians left in the border villages are mainly elderly and are selling up at rock bottom prices in romanian terms.

Already around 20% of the houses in Artand are Romanian-owned with the figure growing steadily I'm told.

My mates are betting on huge capital gains in Artand as people realise that the value is better across the border hence they are buying there.

I'm thinking of taking a punt myself although I'm not going to move over there as some of my friends are thinking of doing.

I'd say that in many of the hungarian border villages next to the major romanian urban centres on the western border a similar process is taking place.

Have a look at Satu Mare, Oradea, Arad & Timisoara and see how close they are to the border . The hungarian villages are dormitory-towns-in-waiting for Romanias fast growing middle class.

humphreyb said:

I would be interested to hear why you guys are buying up border region property in Hungary.

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I'm not going into Hungary. I have brought in Slovakia offplan, in the high tatra, anyone looking at bulgaria shoudl take this as a better bet than Bulgaria in my opinion. The british and irish market hasnt hit the area yet, but trust me it will.

I'd agree. If it weren't for the proximity of eastern Hungary to us here, then I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole either.

My sole reason for getting into hungarian property would be its potetial resale value to romanians.

As for Budapest, well, apart from my beautiful wife agreeing to marry me on the banks of the Danube then I'm not at all enthused.

Beautiful city but not a welcoming one. Maybe it's just the romanian plates on my car!

Recently 3 sets of my friends have bought land in Artand, a small village in Hungary, right on the border. It is 8km from Oradea city centre.

One couple bought a 2000 square metre site for 3000 Euro. Another paid 7,500 Euro for a 2000 sqr metre site with a small house on it, albeit in need of repair. Can't remember what the 3 lot paid but the site size was around the same.

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Hi - can you tell me who deals with properties or land near the border? I can't seem to find Artand on any of the sits. Many thanks

Haven't a clue! None of this is being done through Estate Agents. They are doing it themselves. In otherwords going over and hunting around on a Saturday afternoon.

My brother-in-law is ethnic hungarian so he speaks the language and my other friends learned hungarian on the streets as kids. Comes from being a border town!

Me? I can only swear in hungarian!

Do a Google Earth on Oradea and then follow the road to the border (yellow line). Artand is the little village right on the yellow line bordered north and south by two reservoirs.

By the way it really IS a one-horse town. A dump in my opinion! Not much to look at but probably the best potential in Hungary for capital growth.

It's got mains water and sewage plus mains gas. It's competing villages in Ro have gas if they are lucky.

thanks ancutza - what would you get for €50,000?
Maybe i should stick to searching for property in slovakia - probably take me 5 week camel trek to reach the other place

I'd say that if you can buy in Slovakia and you have easy access then you should stay there and do it.

Oradea is a 3 hour drive from Budapest airport so it's not an easy option but then, in my opinion, it's worth it. There is plenty going on here which is unlikely to get any worthwhile attention in Ireland. Italy, Spain, Germany, Austria and France are where the investors in this region come from typically.

I only know one other paddy out here, a guy from the north who has been here since 1990.

Does anyone have any experience of a similar situation to this one in Slovakia or Poland, close to the Austrian or German borders? Surely there are several border towns in the first two countries, close to cities in the second two? Have they increased in value since EU membership?

Budapest, as far as Slovakia - Bratislava is on the border with Austria, so that's an easy answer for you (prices there have been rising in line with local demand and supply, so it depends on property type and exact location, good property in popular area is going up by around 10% p.a).

As far as areas close the the hungarian border, those close to Bratislava are fine, that is, near the three borders area (SK, Austria, Hungary). Now, in all southern Slovakia, the areas bordering on Hungary are the poorest in the country (along with the eastern Presov a Kosice regions). No growth there and no demand for property, young people mainly leave for other areas/cities, unemployment often 30%. Wouldn't touch a property there. Yes, its cheap, but for a good reason, there's never been demand and won't be later either.

Btw, I think it's foolish to expect prices to grow just because a country joins the EU. Yes, in the long term, but immediately?! In most places that joined (incl. Slovakia) prices actually dropped right after EU entry, and then got back to normal several months later. However, in Bulgaria the market has been so inflated by foreigners in last few years, it may take 10 years for the local market to afford the current prices (as you all know no locals are buying, all these many thousands of new flats in the sea & ski areas are sold to speculators with no resale chances... and it looks like very few rental chances).