building a house without a mortgage

C

choccichip

Guest
Plan to build a house from savings bit by bit. i know is is necessary to get an engineer to sign off on stages when you are drawing down a mortgage, but do you need one if you are not dealing with the banks. Do you still need the stages of the build signed off on. our quote for this is plus foundation drawings is 1,200. Have not yet told the builder we are building in cash. Will he still have a role.

Any one with any experience in cash builds that would be great,
 
The expression "Dear God in Heaven" springs to mind!

It does not matter whether you are paying cash or getting a mortgage. You still need a house to be built properly. Either the builder does that and you are satisfied with that or having an engineer around to keep an eye on it might be a good idea. At some stage the house will be sold ( you may well be dead and buried) and there is very little prospect of anyone buying a house that has no engineer's certificate of compliance with planning permissin and building regs.

I strongly suggest that you think through your plans more thoroughly so that you know what you are getting into. There are lots of very helpful threads on this site.

mf
 
mf1 said:
The expression "Dear God in Heaven" springs to mind!
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+1

I reckon ONQ is busy drafting a very long reply to this post.

choccichip it doesn't matter how you are planning to pay for building your house. The rules and regulations apply re planning, building regulations and all the other annoying 'extra costs' such as architect, engineer, QS, insurance, sub contractors etc.

A word of advice, if you intend building for cash ie to avoid VAT on materials, labour etc and to try and duck under the radar. There is a workd of pain coming your way.

Please dont get me wrong, I wish you all the best but for your sake try not to be naive about the process.

Yes, for cash you can drive a great bargain. You are in the controlling seat and can negotiate prompt payment discounts etc with builders, subcontractors etc. Also materials.

On the other hand because you are paying cash and not being issued certificates by the bank how is anyone contracting to you to know you actually have the money?

If you plan to build direct labour you will be considered the main contractor adn you will be responsible for insurance and managing the tax clearance of your suppliers and contractors. If you do not apply the RCT regulations YOU can be liable for the 35% that should have been deducted plus fines of €3,000 in each and every case of incorrect payment.

Please follow the correct path to your build, negotiate hard, but be clever.
 
We went down your route, had savings and borrowed 40K from credit union five years ago, now OWN our own home 151sq metres, happy days, no banks, etc, my husband very handy/knowledgeable in terms house building, we only had plumber, electrician, window company, plaster and block layer employed in the house, everything else ourselves. five years on no problems just tweaks here and there like fitted solid fuel stove in open fireplace, fully insulated the attic after himself skimped on the job (not realising the NBance of it) and put in large glass unit with double doors closing off sunroom to rest of house etc.

Cash will def get u a better deal, at least five/six years ago it did. Good luck in your venture,
 
ONQ took the weekend off to advise family members on setting up facebook pages believe it or not

I have very little to add to the excellent and competent advice given here.
It is quite possible to build something that looks compliant but which is not complaint.
As others have told you OP and notwithstanding Sandals's husband's expertise in building, you need to know what you're doing.

Medical analogies seem to be the order of the day on AAM this month, so -
Just because you can use a pliers and own a bottle of whiskey, it doesn't make you a dentist.
Some day soon I hope to see a law requiring all buildings to be built using competent design professionals appropriate to the build at all stages.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
A house can be built without an engineer but for the sake of €1200 get one. Its his job to take responsibility for decisions that you or your builder may not be qualified to. Also if you have any quality of work issues as you go along, it gives you more negotiating power.

Are you sure you've budgeted correctly on how much you'll need to finish your house. There are an awful lot of hidden costs involved in building direct labour. it all adds up and all of a sudden your savings can vanish long before you are where you though you'd be. If you do ever need to go down the mortgage where will you get your downpayment.

Maybe you should get mortgage approval before you start spending. You need never draw down but at least you have the security of knowing its there.
 
Trilogy 1982 said:
A house can be built without an engineer
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This is not good advice. Who is qualified to design and certify your foundation construction? Do not rely on an architect or even an experienced builder for this information. Their PI will not cover this, only a civil or structural engineer can perform this task.



This is excellent advice and well worth noting. It also gives your construction team peace of mind when it comes to getting paid!
 

This is untrue. The OP has clearly no business involvement in the construction industry that would bring him into the RCT net in relation to works commissioned on the building of his own home.
 
 
T McGibney said:
This is untrue. The OP has clearly no business involvement in the construction industry that would bring him into the RCT net in relation to works commissioned on the building of his own home.
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My apologies on this you are correct. I confused the plans of the Revenue enforcement section vis a vie direct labour builders with those of Principle contractors.

The main message at this meeting was as the construction sector was declining the RC were using public resources - planning lists, whistle blowers etc to track the shadow economy.

The call from the CIF members was for unconnected homebuilders going direct labour to be considered as principle contractors as a counterpoint to the race to the bottom. This was to level the playing field per se.

See below an excerpt from a CIF meeting held in 2010 which featured the Revenue inspectors.
6. Where a homeowner engages contractors directly to build a house, are they obliged to operate RCT on payments made to the contractors (self-builds)? What is Revenue doing about the possible shadow economy issues in this scenario?

For RCT to apply, the homeowner must be a principal for RCT purposes i.e. a person carrying on a business which includes the erection of buildings or the development of land, or the manufacture, treatment or extraction of materials for use in construction operations, or a person connected with a person (which includes any individual, company or any unincorporated body of persons) carrying on such a business.
However, if the homeowner engages a main contractor (principal) who subcontracts some of the work to other contractors (subcontractors), then the main contractor is required to operate RCT on all payments to these subcontractors.
Revenue has always maintained a significant presence in monitoring activities in the construction sector and is involved in an ongoing programme of construction related audits, compliance interventions and site visits, including one off housing, repairs, maintenance and enhancements. The Revenue Commissioners take a proactive approach to tackling non-compliance and abuses in the construction sector, often as part of Joint Investigation teams with our colleagues in the Department of Social Protection and the National Employment Rights Authority (NERA). The nature of the construction sector is that it is mainly cash based, mobile and labour intensive and these features pose compliance challenges for Revenue. While cases are mainly sourced through information in Revenue’s systems, it also uses intelligence gathered from a number of third party sources, including the general public.


The full session is [broken link removed]



I suppose my point would remain for the OP to be tax compliant when dealing with his contractors to avoid any possible inspection and difficulty resulting from engaging with non tax compliant contractors. The revenue have the power to suspend a site pending inspection.

I know of an occasion where a compliant contractor with registered employees and correctly recorded subbies had to suspend work on a private extension while the inspectors checked out everybodies status.

I still support the OP on his venture and continue to wish good fortune. Just take the easier road to his goal.
 

Normally we are at one yet in this case I will qualify your comments.

I studied mechanics [a branch of structures] for one year and structural engineering for four.

As someone who never got less than 70% in my engineering exams [straight "B"'s], specifying foundations and structures for simple buildings are well within my competence.

However I CHOOSE to ask the client to retain an engineer even for houses precisely because of the perception you write about.

Even a graph paper sketch with calculations for foundation and beam sizes written on it is acceptable providing the engineer is happy with the built work and signs his cert.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
thanks for all the info...appreciate it. Really need to do a little more research!
 
choccichip said:
thanks for all the info...appreciate it. Really need to do a little more research!
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choccichip,

Seeing you talking that new attitude towards a complex undertaking is all the thinks I need, I cannot speak for others.

It makes my day when someone pauses in their gallop and starts to plan ahead and look for pitfalls so they can avoid them and have a smooth running project.

Welld done on that and best of luck with it.

Let us know how you get on.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
OP would you buy a second hand car for a few grand without getting a Mechanic to check it over for you? I wouldn't buy anything for cash without advice.

Why do you think you can build a house without professional advice, on the word of your Builder? If it was that easy everyone would do it and there wouldn't be any Architects, Engineers or Architectural Technicians.
Construction is complicated - compliance with Planning & the Building Regulations is required by Law. Do not be niave - seek & retain professional advice. Rates are competitive so ring around for at least 3 quotes.

€1200 for an Engineer / Technician to visit site 7 to 10 times during construction is very reasonable and could save you a fortune. At the very least it will give you peace of mind.

For your own sake, follow the advice above.
 
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