Build prefabricated houses

T McGibney

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They are superior quality and last for decades.
Houses that "last for decades". Wow, what will they manage next? ;)

Over regulation? Are you serious? Self certification for fire standards etc can hardly be called over regulation.
If the regulations under which self-certification is made are themselves onerous of course it can.


by the same tax environment enjoyed by/ foisted upon, every other business in the country can hardly be called punitive.
Except every other business in the country isn't subject to RCT.
 

Purple

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Except every other business in the country isn't subject to RCT.
If the contractor shows they are fully tax compliant the rate is zero. Meat processors and others are also subject to RCT.

A house that "lasts for decades". Wow, what will they manage next?
They will last 100 years plus. It's just a wood framed house which is built in a factory rather than on site.
 

T McGibney

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No. I never said that "no other business" apart from construction is affected by RCT. Stop twisting my words.
 

Purple

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No. I never said that "no other business" apart from construction is affected by RCT. Stop twisting my words.
Yea, 'cause "every other business isn't subject to RCT" and "No other business is subject to it" are completely different things... :)
 

T McGibney

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Yea, 'cause "every other business isn't subject to RCT" and "No other business is subject to it" are completely different things... :)
Twisting words again.

Let's recap.

You said, in reference to the construction sector, that "the same tax environment enjoyed by/ foisted upon, every other business in the country can hardly be called punitive".

I pointed out that construction doesn't enjoy the same tax environment as every other business in the country, and cited RCT.

You then claimed I said something else altogether on the grounds that RCT also affects forestry operators and meat processors.

You're still claiming that.

Enjoy your Wednesday.
 

Purple

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Doctors have tax withheld by the HSE. Plenty of businesses have different tax treatments. At the end of the year they all pay the same taxes. RTC is a red herring.
 

fidelcastro

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Pray tell us, what over regulation drove these "developers", out of business, the winners who control extensive land banks around the urban areas, who are over taxed and over regulated?

There was no building due to the financial mess brought on by the cosy relationship between politics, builders and financial con men.

Something to do with 400,000 job losses, bust banks, 17% unemployment,massive public & private sector debt and an MF bailout might have been the reason for them to stop building, since the Irish public had well and truly been ridden bareback.

As for examples of pre fabricated housing, use google to educate yourself.

Fidel
 

T McGibney

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Pray tell us, what over regulation drove these "developers", out of business, the winners who control extensive land banks around the urban areas, who are over taxed and over regulated?

There was no building due to the financial mess brought on by the cosy relationship between politics, builders and financial con men.

Something to do with 400,000 job losses, bust banks, 17% unemployment,massive public & private sector debt and an MF bailout might have been the reason for them to stop building, since the Irish public had well and truly been ridden bareback.

As for examples of pre fabricated housing, use google to educate yourself.

Fidel
If all this was inevitable, why did the then government, with support from all sides of our narrow political spectrum, introduce a range of measures in 2009 and later - long after the bailout and bust - to discourage and penalise investment in housing - at a time when the population was rising?
 

Purple

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If all this was inevitable, why did the then government, with support from all sides of our narrow political spectrum, introduce a range of measures in 2009 and later - long after the bailout and bust - to discourage and penalise investment in housing - at a time when the population was rising?
What measures were they?
 

T McGibney

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What measures were they?
Among the tax measures alone were:
  • 25% addback on mortgage interest tax deductions for buy-to-lets
  • NPPR
  • Property Tax
  • PRSI and USC on rental income, the latter on income before capital allowances.
  • The attempted guillotining in 2011 of Section 23 tax relief on rented residential property in tax-designated areas.
 

Purple

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Among the tax measures alone were:
  • 25% addback on mortgage interest tax deductions for buy-to-lets
  • NPPR
  • Property Tax
  • PRSI and USC on rental income, the latter on income before capital allowances.
  • The attempted guillotining in 2011 of Section 23 tax relief on rented residential property in tax-designated areas.
They are all measures designed to hit landlords and which pushed up rent. It pushed up rents but it didn't cost developers anything. There was and is still excessive demand and little supply in the sector as a whole and prices are as high as ever so it didn't dampen prices.
High property prices are a bad thing in an economy as it sucks investment capital away from wealth creating activities and increases costs generally. The only sustainable solution to the problem we have now is to find a way of building houses more cost effectively. There is no reason that should mean lower standards.
 

T McGibney

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They are all measures designed to hit landlords and which pushed up rent. It pushed up rents but it didn't cost developers anything.
I'm not bothered about developers. The measures clearly disincentivised new investment in construction and refurbishment of residential properties.

They actually triggered a mini-boom in commercial property investment which accidentally helped to ameliorate supply issues in that sector. The supply issues in the residential sector were ignored. Why offices and industrial units mattered more than homes for people to live in is a question for policymakers to answer.

There is clearly more than one sustainable solution to the housing supply crisis. Pretending otherwise is a fantasy.
 

Purple

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I'm not bothered about developers. The measures clearly disincentivised new investment in construction and refurbishment of residential properties.

They actually triggered a mini-boom in commercial property investment which accidentally helped to ameliorate supply issues in that sector. The supply issues in the residential sector were ignored. Why offices and industrial units mattered more than homes for people to live in is a question for policymakers to answer.

There is clearly more than one sustainable solution to the housing supply crisis. Pretending otherwise is a fantasy.
I agree that the tax situation for both residential units and commercial units should be the same, or net out the same, so i take your point on that issue. The treatment of the landlords of residential units in this country is disgraceful.
 

Purple

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From this article;
“Against a backdrop of rising costs, contractors and clients need to look to new technologies and methods, as well as better use of data and programme management techniques, to unlock savings.”
 

fidelcastro

Registered User
Messages
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If all this was inevitable, why did the then government, with support from all sides of our narrow political spectrum, introduce a range of measures in 2009 and later - long after the bailout and bust - to discourage and penalise investment in housing - at a time when the population was rising?
Simple. Answer. The State was bust.
Among the tax measures alone were:
  • 25% addback on mortgage interest tax deductions for buy-to-lets
  • NPPR
  • Property Tax
  • PRSI and USC on rental income, the latter on income before capital allowances.
  • The attempted guillotining in 2011 of Section 23 tax relief on rented residential property in tax-designated areas.
Simple. The State was on life support and still requires a drip feed of extremely low interest rates thanks to ECB survive.

This talk of a mass exit from the rented sector due to over regulation over taxation was nicely summed up by a certain John MacCartney head of research at Savills in Fiona Reddans article in today's Irish Times in one word.

"Crap"

Fidel.
 
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