Bord Altranais & recognition of foreign qualifications

Im a 30 yr old nurse, Irish but educated in sweden after moving here when i was 20. I qualified as a RGN 5 yrs ago and did another yr to specialise in psychiatrics and have 4 yrs working experience in psychiatrics.
We decided to move back this summer but Bord Altranais have now informed me that i only qualify as a RGN and not a RPN!

How can this be so different in two modern European countries like Ireland and Sweden, had i been educated in Kazakhstan i might have expected this but it's really taken me by surprise. Ive also heard of other swedish nurses getting RPN in Ireland, and ive studied about as much that is possible over here.

This whole thing is driving me crazy and im now doubting if i can ever move home
Weve got two kids and allready told them were moving, now ill have to turn around and say were not! Not to mention our present employers and everything. Decision day is March 29th as we have three months to quit our appartment and its then or never

Anyone got any tips or ideas?

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Hi there, sorry to hear that,
Even some english nursing courses are not recognised. The other thing is they only want general nurses as far as i can see. Come on over but be prepared for the changes as Sweden is a nicer hospital service so i am told - the Irish one is archaic.

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nelly said:

Hi there, sorry to hear that,
Even some english nursing courses are not recognised. The other thing is they only want general nurses as far as i can see. Come on over but be prepared for the changes as Sweden is a nicer hospital service so i am told - the Irish one is archaic.

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I wouldnt mind only ill have to go back to scratch and start as a RGN beginner. Were going to spend the w/e and have to make a decision, can we survive on €28k? Do i want to go back to general and take a pay cut when i have a great job here in community forensic psychiatrics? The missus is happy in her job and the kids are happy in school so the positives are starting to get outweighed by the negatives.

Im trying to get in touch with a swedish psych nurse i know of, id be extremely surprised if his qualifications are higher than mine, if anything id reckon they're lower.

Chances are well take the plunge but im not looking forward to it as much as i was a few months back.

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and thats the other thing - you will always have to battle with the "we do it this way here" - even if it is miles behind best practice in other countries who actually invest in healthcare. Even if you were to come back as RGN is disgraceful that your experience is not even taken into consideration. AFAIK whatever retraining you do you end up going back to trainee salary - and yes you are not having dinner out on 28k in Ireland nowadays.
If your partner is working i would say she could pick up a language related job with swedish, tec shpport for example, but then childcare costs could be prohibitive. Where you will move to in ireland will have a huge bearing on the cost of living.
Also its worth knowing that the psyciatric nurses union is way stronger than the INO and i would say this is to the detriment of folks like yourself with non-irish qualifications. that could be my anti-union mentality tho!

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wouldnt mind only ill have to go back to scratch and start as a RGN beginner. Were going to spend the w/e and have to make a decision, can we survive on €28k

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Hi there SlapHead, I am an Ex Nurse, and very glad to be so, my personal experiences in working in some of Dublins major hospitals is very negative in relation to treatment of staff.
There is very little recognition of external qualifications in Ireland, actually there are very few new courses in DCU and trinity that An Bord Altrainais recognise...

The only thing is you will be able to bump up the 28K salary with nights and week ends

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you could always get your mother or father if still alive to go pester a politician - even if only to get your experience recognised so you go up a few points on the pay scale. And write to Mary Harney yourself, can't hurt any and it would be good pro-nurses story.

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even if only to get your experience recognised

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That is the thing An Bord Altranais do not recognise external experience - which to be honest is appauling. As an programmer experience is experience - no mater where you worked...

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pinky that IS shocking - if teachers experience abroad is taken into consideration then what is the difference with nurses?
TBH is the INO took on that for their members the public would support it - good nurses are leaving because of petty sh1t like that. the irish that go abroad for a few years have no incentive to come back and work here if their mates from college is working along side them with more "points (€€€)" and the same lenght of experience so. madness.

it depends on the area of the country as to the agency work - there is not too much of it here in Cork for some reason. look into that!

Re: Bord Altranais problems!

nelly said:

you could always get your mother or father if still alive to go pester a politician - even if only to get your experience recognised so you go up a few points on the pay scale. And write to Mary Harney yourself, can't hurt any and it would be good pro-nurses story.

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Mr Harney was apparently in Stockholm for Paddies day, but she never turned up a the parade. I was going to have a word with her about the slowness and inefficency of B.A., that was before i found this out about my psych reg. Ill write to her after everything is clear.

I cant wait to here from the swedish guy who got psych reg. Im 90% sure he'll have equal or lower qualifications than me and ill kick up a lot of trouble if this is the case.

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good nurses are leaving because of petty sh1t like that. the irish that go abroad for a few years have no incentive to come back and work here if their mates from college is working along side them with more "points (€€€)" and the same lenght of experience so. madness.

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I am in absolute aggreement - i left nursing 10 years ago, the career opertunities were appauling at the time - in respect to post grad courses.
I left to go back to collage in DCU and have NO regrets.

The Dublin Hospital I trained in at the time - had very little respect for nurses who were trainied in other hospitals - never mind abroad... Thing have slightly improved now - but the OP's plight is certainly appauling, a nurse with 4 years experience and is duely qualified getting the same salary as a newly qualified nurse.

Another thing slaphead to note, what will the promotional aspects like if you do move to Ireland, I have done alot of Agency around Dublin and most of the nursing staff (there were exceptions ) were Irish trained! Despite non - Irish - trained nurses possibly having better experience.

You are planning to move into an enviornment that is not as progressive as the UK, and a milenia behind the nordic health system....You have a huge decision to make...

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pinkyBear said:

Another thing slaphead to note, what will the promotional aspects like if you do move to Ireland, I have done alot of Agency around Dublin and most of the nursing staff (there were exceptions ) were Irish trained! Despite non - Irish - trained nurses possibly having better experience.
You are planning to move into an enviornment that is not as progressive as the UK, and a milenia behind the nordic health system....You have a huge decision to make...

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I'm aware of the attitude to foreign nurses,the swedish system while stressfull and under manned is very progressive and modern. When i was at an interview at Christmas the woman just belittled everything i had done and wanted to put dump me onto the most unatractive ward they had.
I am'nt too fussy with what work i do for the first yr or so but i dont want to be "banned " from working in psychiatry.

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Well let me wish you all the best with the decision... The one good thing about Nursing these days is that Trinity and DCU do run great courses for nurses...
And ABA eventually come around to recognising the courses. Nursing Informatics is a relatively new area in General Nursing - possibly for pshyciatry too, the role is CNM 2 / 3... Management level.
This has only been recognised in the past 3 years...

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Well things are looking up

I got in touch with the Swedish guy who got psych registration and its exactly what i tought it was. He has in fact way lower qualifications than what i have.
He was a nurses aid in the 80's and a special program back then allowed nurses aids to do an 80 weeks course and get a psychiatric speciality.
I have done 165 weeks in university in total, ie more than twice what he has.
So the move is definitely on.

I cant wait to speak to B.A. on monday evening, watch this space,,,

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years ago, experience abroad was not acknowledged.....person who'd been a Sister (told you this was years ago!) in London had to start on 1st yr Staff Nurse salary.......but the shortage of nurses seems to have changed that (but not retrospectively ) Seems to deal with cases individually.

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Ive now found out that the swedish guy did 6 months work with a mentor in a psych hospital as a RGN in order to get his RGN which i suppose is what im going to have to do. So it'll be the bottom of the salary scale for me for 6-9 months.

Either way it will be intresting to see how they can motivate not giving me my RPN despite giving it to someone with less than half the university time than me albeit it with more experience.

Ill be talking to BA tomorrow, the thing that really gauls me is that they havnt helped me get my RPN, by pointing out the mentor for me, ive had to do it all myself, its tough enough for me to do all this but imagine a non Irish national trying to find all this out. They'd have given up ages ago.

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Re pinkybear

I dont really know whats going on now? The guy i know has possibly done 5 weeks more psychiatric studies than me. (ive got 45 weeks and he has 50, its counted in University points, ECTS). He has also has done some general, 30 weeks, compared to my 120. He's been very helpful and im getting his course plan from his old university to use as a comparison.

BA have told me that they wont listen to me any more and i have to go through an appeal, which means its all going to drag out for a long time more, tbh im epecting it to take years before it gets sorted.

Im going to appeal of course, common sense says ive got a cast iron case but common sense doesnt seem to be worth a whole lot in this matter.

Im also got a tip from someone to contact a few universities and show them what ive done and ask them to show me what i need to ge a degree with them. Ive also got a National Cert in Science (Microbiology) 2 yrs from WIT and aftera quick glance at UCD's psych degree course i reckon i have most of it somewhere or other. I'd be happy if they took away my general and gave me psych only.

Best case scenario ill have to do a month or more clinical placements to get my reg, worst case it'll take yrs of bickering with them and i might never get it. Ive been in touch with an psych employer however and i think they can take me on as a general nurse (bottom ofthe scale) in the meantime so there'll be food on the table at least.

The main thing is that the decision has now been made but there's still a whole lot of work to be done. I was hoping to have a job sorted by now but that's a long way off yet.

also got a tip from someone to contact a few universities and show them what ive done and ask them to show me what i need to ge a degree with them. Ive also got a National Cert in Science (Microbiology) 2 yrs from WIT and aftera quick glance at UCD's psych degree course i reckon i have most of it somewhere or other. I'd be happy if they took away my general and gave me psych only.

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Hi Slaphead, I'm glad to see your moving back, so first of all welcome back...
If you would like to PM me I can give you the name of someonoe who was so helpfult to me. She is based in DCU and is lecturing there. She might be able to help you, but she may also be able to give you the names of others who can also assist you.

If you are going to be based in wexford UCD would be your best bet, nursing is still a very small work and my friend miight be able to help