Booster jabs v Global Roll out

[Paul O Mahoney]

I didn't foresee the debate that has now begun on the issue of booster jabs which primarily will be given in western countries.
I personally thought that manufacturing of vaccines would now be a lot more than it is now and the dual projects of rolling out vaccines to poorer countries and booster jabs initially to those vulnerable people in western countries .

Most scientists Ive heard/read are totally against the booster jabs being rolled out now as there are vast swathes of the planet with little or no vaccines and with prospects of getting enough is not looking promising.

42% of the global population has had a least one jab, the important one, with 1.9% in Africa.
Israel, for example has mandated that all over 12s will get the booster and has began its administration.

The head of the WHO thinks its immoral, South Africa thinks its apartheid in a new form, and the African head of the WHO says the global economy has developed complex and robust distribution channels and if vaccines were sent to Africa the infrastructure in Africa would allow them to be used quickly, unlike say 20/30 years ago .

The Lancet is a recent report said the there is no need for booster jabs as there is no evidence yet that they add anything more to immunity.

The question is whether anyone here would be willing to forgo a booster in the coming months if it meant that those doses would be distributed to poorer countries.

 

[Leper]

I'm saying No. If a 3rd dose of any vaccine is made available to me, I'll take it on the following (no partular order):-
1. It'll make me feel safer.
2. It's free.
3. I believe lots of aid sent to 3rd World Countries never get to the intended destination or people.
4. Even articles in the Lancet informing us there is no need for the booster don't hold too much weight for me.
5. If I refuse 3rd dose, it does the rest of the Irish community no favours.
6. Since Covid I have an Ireland-First policy.
7. How much will be paid to Irish "charities" for eventual delivery etc. With many rip off stories in the Irish charity sector I've lost faith in the so called charity organisations.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

My answer would be yes, I would forgo the booster, but when I think of my elderly parents my views change a little and would like to see them getting it.

This is a not an easy question or proposal to answer. There are certain sections of society that will need the booster, vulnerable, elderly and frontline staff.

And of course there are risks involved with having a population with weakened immunity, perhaps an increase in virus circulation which could place us back at the base of the hill we just climbed.

I watching the documentary on the 4 civilian astronauts last night and a comment stuck with me , " when they see the Earth from their vantage point they won't see borders that we go to war over, they won't see the poverty or inequality that we know exists, they'll see oceans, deserts and forests on a piece of rock in a vast universe, a very vulnerable planet ".

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

If a 3rd dose of any vaccine is made available to me, I'll take it on the following (no partular order):-
1. It'll make me feel safer.
2. It's free.
3. I believe lots of aid sent to 3rd World Countries never get to the intended destination or people.
4. Even articles in the Lancet informing us there is no need for the booster don't hold too much weight for me.
5. If I refuse 3rd dose, it does the rest of the Irish community no favours.
6. Since Covid I have an Ireland-First policy.

Ok I'm a little taken aback by these reasons especially from knowing your other views and the work you have done during your life.

But I'm particularly taken back by 6 and "Ireland-First policy", we are only in the position we are in due to EU membership and perhaps to a lesser degree the fact that one of the main manufacturers has a large presence here and will be producing drug substance for their vaccine soon.

If we weren't in that position would we have the percentage of the population vaccinated that we have if we were say like another small country?

We are fortunate that the decision was made in the late 60s to persue EEC membership, had we failed we probably wouldn't have the industry we have and would probably be in a similar situation to say Albania.

Additionally perusing a nationalist policy is something that only causes more harm to a country.

I get that in the past Aid to poorer countries get "diverted" but during the Ebola crisis recently the checks and balances put in by the WHO and international organisations did achieve a very large rollout of that vaccine to the population at large.

On the Lancet, there probably is a need for more information on the length of time the vaccines protect but I wouldn't be throwing its present view out with the baby.

And finally if the vaccine was mixed with the flu vaccine would you still take it? and if the booster came a a pill, which is very possible would you still take it?

 

[Leper]

Fair comment, Paul. But, I'm turned off completely by the amount of gangsters there are involved in the "Charity" Industry. Many of them use the charities for their own well being. Living near me, there are two leading lights in the Charity Industry. It's their sole occupation and have recruited their families into the game. Very few looking in here could afford their lifestyle and the houses in which they live not to mention their extensive holiday homes abroad. Ask yourself who is paying for this?

If anybody doubts what I am saying take a look at some of the websites and advertising these businesses (I'm refusing to call them Charities) do. You'll see the CEO photographed with some glamorous model brought especially in for the photo-shoot. Then there's the family back up with huge salaries for sealing envelopes and managing to walk to some post-box after dining in some expensive restaurant. The on-the-ground workers in these businesses must get a bit browned off too seeing the CEO and family living in unbelievable luxury while they give their time and efforts for free.

There must be a better way and I'll admit I can't see it. And . . . . . . . . I wish I were wrong.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Fair comment, Paul. But, I'm turned off completely by the amount of gangsters there are involved in the "Charity" Industry. Many of them use the charities for their own well being. Living near me, there are two leading lights in the Charity Industry. It's their sole occupation and have recruited their families into the game. Very few looking in here could afford their lifestyle and the houses in which they live not to mention their extensive holiday homes abroad. Ask yourself who is paying for this?

If anybody doubts what I am saying take a look at some of the websites and advertising these businesses (I'm refusing to call them Charities) do. You'll see the CEO photographed with some glamorous model brought especially in for the photo-shoot. Then there's the family back up with huge salaries for sealing envelopes and managing to walk to some post-box after dining in some expensive restaurant. The on-the-ground workers in these businesses must get a bit browned off too seeing the CEO and family living in unbelievable luxury while they give their time and efforts for free.

There must be a better way and I'll admit I can't see it. And . . . . . . . . I wish I were wrong.

Look at mine no payments to directors we aren't all gangsters and do believe in Altruism. And I know what you were saying it's just that perhaps just perhaps the lessons of the past might be forgotten?

Jaysus, 54 and I'm still idealistic.

 

[Kimmagegirl]

Back in the year 2000 we were all given a Millennium tree. These must be a grand size by now.

I would be happy to donate my tree to fund a batch of vaccines to whoever needs them.


In fact, I also have some share certificates for Bula Mines, Atlantic Resources, Eircom, Waterford Wedgewood.......that could be sold to anyone interested......although I am not sure exactly how many shares I actually have, because of all the rights issues, share splits and consolidations, over the years. Lots of money lying around in unsold shares and dormant accounts. Even a few bus tickets, that I am owed money on.

The above kind of reminds me of the Irish Charities.....not actually knowing what is happening to my €1 donation or investment.

I would be happy to donate to fund vaccines for poorer countries, if I knew that the charity, dictator, warlord did not have their hand in the greasy till.

 

[joer]

I agree that there are too many hands in the greasy tills nowadays , unfortunately. I would be very choosey as to what charities I would donate to.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

We've gotten off topic a bit, any views on the OP ?

 

[Kimmagegirl]

We've gotten off topic a bit, any views on the OP ?

Yes. You are back....

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Yes. You are back....

Thought OP meant opening post, I'm but a mere novice with this interwebby yoke and all the abbreviations that ride with it.

 

[SoylentGreen]

Thought OP meant opening post, I'm but a mere novice with this interwebby yoke and all the abbreviations that ride with it.

I think Kimmage Girl was alluding to the fact that you were trying to control the direction of "your" thread.

Lots of money lying around in unsold shares and dormant accounts

I know for a fact that I have a couple of dormant accounts in the EBS Building Society. Nobody from that organisation has ever tried to contact me in any way to remind me that these accounts are still there. Nearly 20 years now.

I would be happy to give a donation toward vaccines for poorer countries or donate the funds in my dormant account to a reputable organisation that will not waste one vaccine.

However, I want my booster. I have my two jabs but I am not as confident as I was when I was getting my first jab. My confidence has waned a bit. Mainly to the fact that we still continue to have high daily cases of Covid, despite 90% of the country being fully vaccinated. Something's not quite right. Are we not being told the full story about the efficacy of the vaccines?

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I wasn't specifically talking about donations to NGOs or anyone I was more thinking about not taking up the booster jab if it meant more vaccines were sent to poorer countries.

 

[Purple]

I think the entire vaccination program has been immoral. The WHO called it immoral in March. I'm 48 and in good health. There's no way I should have been vaccinated before everyone over 75 everywhere was vaccinated. Now they are talking about booster shots? That's just crazy.
If the people who were not vaccinated yet weren't poor and black and brown there'd be a whole different conversation right now.

The fact that variants develop in unvaccinated populations should be reason enough to oppose this, even if you haven't a shred of empathy or morality.

I find this utterly disgusting and reprehensible.

 

[Graftgirl]

you are all aware of the numbers right?......not the daily fear drilling numbers but the Vaccination deaths and injuries. for example the EUDRA Vigilance which is the European reporting system for the injured and deaths which is also known to be severely under reported as the reporting system is extremely laborious (9 page document and difficult to report neurological symptoms) over 24000 dead and 2, 190,500 injuries. the American system for reporting adverse reactions and deaths is called the VAERS, please look up its all public government data. I am amazed to hear so much discussion on figures and not much mention of these figures...

 

[odyssey06]

you are all aware of the numbers right?......not the daily fear drilling numbers but the Vaccination deaths and injuries. for example the EUDRA Vigilance which is the European reporting system for the injured and deaths which is also known to be severely under reported as the reporting system is extremely laborious (9 page document and difficult to report neurological symptoms) over 24000 dead and 2, 190,500 injuries. the American system for reporting adverse reactions and deaths is called the VAERS, please look up its all public government data. I am amazed to hear so much discussion on figures and not much mention of these figures...

This is disinformation.

It does not mean 24000 people died from taking a vaccine. It means that 24000 people died after taking a vaccine.
Either you are not aware enough to know this and have been fooled by people spreading fake news, or you do know this and are deliberately spreading fake news. Either way it's fake news and you need to stop spreading it or increase your baloney detection skills.

This scurrilous nonsense as been completely debunked by multiple reputable news organistions.
“Many suspected ADRs reported on a Yellow Card do not have any relation to the vaccine or medicine and it is often coincidental that they both occurred around the same time,” an MHRA representative told Reuters in a previous fact check

Fact Check-Video misinterprets data of possible adverse drug reactions reported to the Yellow Card scheme

A video on social media has spread misinformation about the numbers of possible adverse drug reactions reported to the UK’s Yellow Card scheme.

www.reuters.com

Fact Check-VAERS data does not prove COVID-19 vaccine deaths exceeded 12,000

Posts sharing incorrect incident numbers reported to the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) are missing context.

www.reuters.com

Fact check: 3,150 people were not ‘paralyzed’ after receiving COVID-19 vaccine

An article circulating on social media says a report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) indicated that “3,150 persons were paralyzed” after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine. The article is missing context.

www.reuters.com

 

[Purple]

you are all aware of the numbers right?......not the daily fear drilling numbers but the Vaccination deaths and injuries. for example the EUDRA Vigilance which is the European reporting system for the injured and deaths which is also known to be severely under reported as the reporting system is extremely laborious (9 page document and difficult to report neurological symptoms) over 24000 dead and 2, 190,500 injuries. the American system for reporting adverse reactions and deaths is called the VAERS, please look up its all public government data. I am amazed to hear so much discussion on figures and not much mention of these figures...

Still tilting at Windmills I see.

 

[Graftgirl]

This is disinformation.

It does not mean 24000 people died from taking a vaccine. It means that 24000 people died after taking a vaccine.
Either you are not aware enough to know this and have been fooled by people spreading fake news, or you do know this and are deliberately spreading fake news. Either way it's fake news and you need to stop spreading it or increase your baloney detection skills.

This scurrilous nonsense as been completely debunked by multiple reputable news organistions.
“Many suspected ADRs reported on a Yellow Card do not have any relation to the vaccine or medicine and it is often coincidental that they both occurred around the same time,” an MHRA representative told Reuters in a previous fact check

Fact Check-Video misinterprets data of possible adverse drug reactions reported to the Yellow Card scheme

A video on social media has spread misinformation about the numbers of possible adverse drug reactions reported to the UK’s Yellow Card scheme.

www.reuters.com

Fact Check-VAERS data does not prove COVID-19 vaccine deaths exceeded 12,000

Posts sharing incorrect incident numbers reported to the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) are missing context.

www.reuters.com

Fact check: 3,150 people were not ‘paralyzed’ after receiving COVID-19 vaccine

An article circulating on social media says a report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) indicated that “3,150 persons were paralyzed” after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine. The article is missing context.

www.reuters.com

Why would you jump straight to make the point that I am someone trying to spread fake news? why would someone do that anyway I'm wondering....Im well able to decipher fake information from scaremongering and fear drilling.... the CDC have a new interesting rule.. if someone were to pass away within 14 days of the Vaccine, their death is recorded as being an unvaccinated death.. so not linked to the Vaccine.
Reuters is not a reliable source for anything, you dont think it possible for the media to be bought out at all, that there are financial incentives, follow the money back, they are linked to Pfizer, you know the company that had the biggest fine paid out in 2009 for 2.9Billion for bribing doctors and suppressing the results of medical trials...

 

[Purple]

the CDC have a new interesting rule.. if someone were to pass away within 14 days of the Vaccine, their death is recorded as being an unvaccinated death.. so not linked to the Vaccine.

Probably because it takes 14 days for the vaccine to become effective and offer protection.

Reuters is not a reliable source for anything, you dont think it possible for the media to be bought out at all, that there are financial incentives, follow the money back, they are linked to Pfizer

Jim/James Smith, CEO of Reuters, is also on the board of Pfizer. What do you mean by 'follow the money'?
Do his dual roles mean that everyone working in Pfizer is compromised and every journalist in Reuters is dishonest? Between the two companies we're talking about over 100,000 people.

 

[Graftgirl]

Still tilting at Windmills I see.

Still? I dont think we have ever exchanged dialogue before have we?

Probably because it takes 14 days for the vaccine to become effective and offer protection.

Jim/James Smith, CEO of Reuters, is also on the board of Pfizer. What do you mean by 'follow the money'?
Do his dual roles mean that everyone working in Pfizer is compromised and every journalist in Reuters is dishonest? Between the two companies we're talking about over 100,000 people.

That means there is a conflict of interest in my opinion..no not everyone in an organisation is aware of what goes on at upper levels..Fact checkers is financed by Pfizer that is not independent or reliable.. what do you think the big fine was for in 2009, you dont think its at all possible that there could be any lies being told from anywhere.. I am not ignoring any information, that's just not intelligent to me at the moment, I can see and hear alot of propaganda too, you think the 24/7 promotion of the flu was normal, are you aware of the level of funding that went through our media, its massive and its fairly one-sided which I find unusual..