BER - Fit for Purpose?

Leo

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I last paid €250 for a BER two years ago and I presume going rate is still similar. The system provides basic-but-useful useful information to prospective buyers and tenants about likely heating costs.
€250 is the higher end of the scale now, but I paid a similar amount around the same time. There are companies advertising BERs from ~€120.
 

Micks'r

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But how does the training of people outside the BER assessment process reflect on the suitability of the BER process which is what we're talking about here?
I'm not sure but we might be talking at cross purposes.
I am trying to say that the BER system (in its current form) should not be involved at all in determining retrofit measures (deep or shallow). Imo, the current purpose the BER system in conjunction with grant aided measures is for primarily political purposes.
Educating the general building industry will mean that an experienced and educated construction professional will know what will be needed to make the most cost effective improvements (20% effort/cost for 80% benefit).
I recognise that this is Ireland so what I'm saying is unlikely to happen but if nothing changes I guarantee that in 20 years (or sooner) there will be new grants to retrofix many of the current grant aided retrofits.
 

Leo

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I am trying to say that the BER system (in its current form) should not be involved at all in determining retrofit measures (deep or shallow). Imo, the current purpose the BER system in conjunction with grant aided measures is for primarily political purposes.
So what should be used instead? What assessment should be carried out before and after energy improvement works that still costs less then €200 in most cases?

Is a relatively crude and inexpensive assessment not effective as a tool to ensure grants are more likely to go towards properties more in need of upgrade?

I recognise that this is Ireland so what I'm saying is unlikely to happen but if nothing changes I guarantee that in 20 years (or sooner) there will be new grants to retrofix many of the current grant aided retrofits.
Are you're suggesting that energy upgrades are being incorrectly fitted or that faulty materials or equipment is being used?
 

Micks'r

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So what should be used instead? What assessment should be carried out before and after energy improvement works that still costs less then €200 in most cases?
I have given already the answer in the next sentence "Educating the general building industry will mean that an experienced and educated construction professional will know what will be needed to make the most cost effective improvements (20% effort/cost for 80% benefit)"
As an analogy suppose you have a leak in your roof. Do you have some roofing assessor out first to survey the roof and then get a roofer to do the work required or do you have an experienced roofer do the job without the assessor?
 

Micks'r

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Is a relatively crude and inexpensive assessment not effective as a tool to ensure grants are more likely to go towards properties more in need of upgrade?
No, not if it is the BER system in its current form. As a tool is it akin to using a hammer to cut the wood used to make a dining table. You might well end up with a table of sorts but is it acceptable when public money is being used to grant aid the table. Imo, it is not.
 

Micks'r

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Are you're suggesting that energy upgrades are being incorrectly fitted or that faulty materials or equipment is being used?
What I am suggesting is that public funds are being spent on measures that will not make any significant dent in our carbon footprint and the general public's comfort and energy use (i.e. the wrong measures are funded and the same dwellings will need to be revisited to do a proper job in the future)
 

Leo

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I have given already the answer in the next sentence "Educating the general building industry will mean that an experienced and educated construction professional will know what will be needed to make the most cost effective improvements (20% effort/cost for 80% benefit)"
But that's just avoiding the question entirely.

Let's just assume the entire industry is fully educated, what method does a highly educated assessor use to perform an assessment and produce a report for less than €200 that includes a list of improvement suggestions with each rated high, medium, or low for cost and impact?


As an analogy suppose you have a leak in your roof. Do you have some roofing assessor out first to survey the roof and then get a roofer to do the work required or do you have an experienced roofer do the job without the assessor?
That analogy makes no sense. Is there a government grant for addressing leaks that needs to be prioritised to the most leaky roofs?
 

Leo

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What I am suggesting is that public funds are being spent on measures that will not make any significant dent in our carbon footprint and the general public's comfort and energy use (i.e. the wrong measures are funded and the same dwellings will need to be revisited to do a proper job in the future)
Of course, and the government is fully aware of that. Again, that is not what the BER system was ever designed to achieve.

Likewise the energy grant system was not designed to target funding only where it's most needed or will add most benefit, it's merely designed to encourage those who can afford to carry out improvements to spend their money and do so. It's one of a number of similar measures that more benefit the more affluent section of the population who have a choice.

Just like grants for purchasing EVs, they do nothing to take the most polluting vehicles off the road, they just offer a small incentive to those who can afford to splash out €50k on a new car so that they might choose a greener option.

If you wanted to ensure building energy improvement funds are spent where they make most difference, you target only the worst performing buildings, the state pays for the entirety of the works, and the homeowner gets no choice.
 

noproblem

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€250 is the higher end of the scale now, but I paid a similar amount around the same time. There are companies advertising BERs from ~€120.
I have applied for one of the insulation grants, been approved, etc. Part of the whole thing is for me to have a BER done at the end of the fitting. The SEAI has the BER in their costing and it was €300.00, the BER accessor is one they themselves picked, not me. The best price I could find for one in Co Mayo was €275.00 and that was after they were told it was for grant purposes, otherwise I found 1 for €200. 00 when no grant was involved. Strange.
 
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Leo

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The best price I could find for one in Co Mayo was €275.00 and that was after they were told it was for grant purposes, otherwise I found 1 for €200. 00 when no grant was involved. Strange.
That does stink of the industry gouging the grant scheme alright.
 
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