No idea. They must have some default value for double glazed windows? :-|So how are the BER's calculated every day if there's no way of certifying the u value of older windows? Just find it rather strange and never heard about this before.
I applied through An Post for one of their free surveys, went with raised flooring in the attic along with 200mm extra insulation. There's a BER calculation done when it's all finished. My house was built in or around 2006. Paid my deposit as requested on Feb 18th and haven't heard a word since. Munster Joinery did my windows and doors aprox 2006. The guy who came out to do the survey was also a BER surveyor and said they take the calculation of the windows into account for the BER from the stamp imprinted on the glass. He won't be doing my BER calculation as he says it might compromise him, so they send another surveyor to do it when work is complete. I await.
The BER is far from perfect, but it's perfectly good enough for the intended purpose. It was never intended to offer anything more than a rough guide, and to do so at low cost. You suggestion of establishing facts relating to draughts, heat loss, etc. would mean a comprehensive testing that would cost in the thousands to perform. It Would you really want to pay that much, and pay it twice if you were looking for a grant for a PV installation or improved insulation? Pay it to sell or rent out a property?So how are the BER's calculated every day if there's no way of certifying the u value of older windows? Just find it rather strange and never heard about this before.
In no way was I trying to derail the thread. Just pointing out that BER certs, in my opinion, are not fit for purpose. As I say, my opinion, you're quite entitled to your opinion too and I've no problem with that.The BER is far from perfect, but it's perfectly good enough for the intended purpose. It was never intended to offer anything more than a rough guide, and to do so at low cost. You suggestion of establishing facts relating to draughts, heat loss, etc. would mean a comprehensive testing that would cost in the thousands to perform. It Would you really want to pay that much, and pay it twice if you were looking for a grant for a PV installation or improved insulation? Pay it to sell or rent out a property?
At the very start it was easy to become a BER assessor as they needed to get numbers into the system, but now qualified BER assessors must prove that they can make a reasonably accurate assessment of the energy performance of the components they enter into the DEAP system within acceptable margins.
If a homeowner really wants to do a comprehensive assessment with a view to prioritising improvements, then there are lots of companies like Micks'r's who will take on that work, and they can chose to pay for the level of detail they want to get to.
Anyway, this was discussed elsewhere, so let's not derail this thread any more.
Sorry, wasn't suggesting you were, just other threads have been by posters who think a comprehensive test that would cost thousands makes sense for someone claiming a grant worth a few hundred.In no way was I trying to derail the thread. Just pointing out that BER certs, in my opinion, are not fit for purpose.
Hard to be genuinely correct in answering, without first having a draught test and fixing the faults that test shows up. Then again, that's not exactly going to answer your question either. I guess what you spend on heating the house afterwards, as against the cost beforehand might be a good gauge.Sorry, wasn't suggesting you were, just other threads have been by posters who think a comprehensive test that would cost thousands makes sense for someone claiming a grant worth a few hundred.
What do you think would constitute an effective means of assessing the energy performance of a typical 3 bedroom house for less than €250?
But draught testing will add hundreds to the cost and so make the test unfit for the purpose of administering relatively low value grants.Hard to be genuinely correct in answering, without first having a draught test and fixing the faults that test shows up. Then again, that's not exactly going to answer your question either. I guess what you spend on heating the house afterwards, as against the cost beforehand might be a good gauge.
You did ask for my opinionBut draught testing will add hundreds to the cost and so make the test unfit for the purpose of administering relatively low value grants.
Likewise, measuring heating costs is not reliable or practical. If a house is constantly occupied they will likely heat it a lot more than a household where everyone is out at work most of the day. Some people like a house quite cool, my mother complains if it's less than 25 degrees! Then there is quite a variation in prices between suppliers for gas, oil, coal, wood, etc., and how do you factor in people who supplement or mainly burn their own turf or timber?
The purpose of the BER is not to get a really accurate measure of performance, it's to get something cheap that gives a good enough approximation.
I did, but your suggestions only move further away from a test that's fit for purpose.You did ask for my opinion
But the thing is that while a BER is certainly cheap, it doesn't give a good enough approximation ... that can be relied upon to guide real and actual improvements in heat retention for any value grant aided measures. That's not what it was originally designed for but is now being (wrongly in my mind) shoehorned into doing and the general public are been sold a pup with it as well as tax payers money being wasted.The purpose of the BER is not to get a really accurate measure of performance, it's to get something cheap that gives a good enough approximation.
How would you expect a single overall score to be able to provide that guidance?But the thing is that while a BER is certainly cheap, it doesn't give a good enough approximation ... that can be relied upon to guide real and actual improvements in heat retention for any value grant aided measures.
So what testing system would you recommend that would cost no more to implement and would be able to calculate an accurate ROI on the various improvement options?That's not what it was originally designed for but is now being (wrongly in my mind) shoehorned into doing and the general public are been sold a pup with it as well as tax payers money being wasted.
I don't.How would you expect a single overall score to be able to provide that guidance?
This is an excellent question.So what testing system would you recommend that would cost no more to implement and would be able to calculate an accurate ROI on the various improvement options?
What training or qualifications are the current BER assessors lacking that are holding the system back?This is an excellent question.
Imo, there are no cheap testing systems that will give accurate results in the absence of a properly qualified / trained industry.
And that's just it. You're expecting a much more comprehensive testing and reporting system that would cost significantly more to run. The additional costs would mean the system is no longer suitable for administering small grants deterring homeowners from making improvements and just lining the pockets of the inspection and testing industry.I don't.
I'm not talking about assessors not having the correct training here I'm talking about the BER system being used to do something that it cannot in its present form. And by industry I mean everyone involved in construction (engineers, architects, general contractors, sparks, labourer etc).What training or qualifications are the current BER assessors lacking that are holding the system back?
But how does the training of people outside the BER assessment process reflect on the suitability of the BER process which is what we're talking about here?I'm not talking about assessors not having the correct training here I'm talking about the BER system being used to do something that it cannot in its present form.
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