Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,177
Polkadot;Yes I wonder would it be more beneficial for the state to retain a majority stake in AIB? Would that be more beneficial for the people of Ireland in the long run? Otherwise, privately owned banks will just carry on as they always have done.
Effectively does the State not own Coillte/Esb.I am not in favour of the State owning one of the biggest commercial institutions in the country. But we should only sell, when the time is right. There is obviously no point in selling it now, for a loss. It will be worth more than we paid for it and when we get our money back and some more, we should get rid.
Steven
Effectively does the State not own Coillte/Esb.
I would (given Bankers history) be very slow to again leave us all at the mercy of institutions that thrive on the Market , yet when going gets tough we pay for them !
I would not be a fan of (state ownership) but am a fan of ensuring that at least in Banking we don,t walk future generations into trouble.
Semi state bodies as far as I am aware. Both are completely different to banks. Collite owns a huge amount of land in Ireland. If it was a fully independent commercial company, it would sell off this land during the boom times and make massive profit. ESB - huge amount of infrastructure required that was paid for by the state.
The purpose of the Central Bank changes that so many people are against are to put restrictions in place that will prevent the banks from lending so recklessly again. Also, we had to borrow billions to bail these banks out. If we rely on dividends to pay us back, it will take a lot longer to do so. Sell it off at a profit and pay off some of the debt.
Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie[/QUOTE]
Steven , I do understand the differences .
To say Coillte would have sold off in Boom times flies in the face of what most of the (private) companies did.In actual fact they kept (her lit!) so Coillte had they been private would not have sold.
Yes, thankfully we did invest fortunes in ESB infrastructure and have kept control.
I believe in Uk the private companies have not properly invested, so the State will have to invest to ensure continuity of UK electricity in future.
I think it is very difficult and indeed understandable for Private companies to take a long term strategic view.
{sell AIB at a profit} Hmn ,
Methinks at best we may get close to 20 Billion @ some future time.
Is it not much better to hold a controlling stake ,on which we get dividends to protect future generations from AIB Mark 3.Particularly as Government borrowing costs are low?
Remember,
This is the 2nd time in my lifetime we have had to bale AIB out from insolvency.
Our Central Bank/regulators were the same shower that was in charge when AIB cost us extra premia on insurance policies for years.We had to recall the Dail to bale AIB out then.
We then re-baled them out in 2008? when they again went bust.
I really do not want to give AIB or our Regulators a third chance to screw us.
I just strongly feel there is no compelling reason to sell.
I think we still suffer from Private= good.
I do not trust Central Bank/Regulators to protect us.
I do not think Private companies need or indeed should hold long-term strategies, so therefore they should not have a controlling influence on critical infrastructure such as Banking.
Dermot,The one thing that would worry me about the state owning a Bank would be giving politicians influence on their lending policies to suit their political agendas. It has been already bad enough with the so called experts running the Banks but adding politicians to the mix will only exacerbate the situation. We had some examples in the past where leading businessmen were ringing the Taoiseach of the day trying to get him to exert influence and we did own the Bank at the time. Think what could happen if we did own one and as well all the cronies that would be appointed to key positions where a phone call could influence something. Just a thought.
Yup Steven,Gerry
I think we can get our money back in a number of years time. AIB is one of the pillar banks in Ireland. There isn't a lot of competition here, so I expect they will return to making huge profits soon.
The protection provided from The Central Bank is another thing. I talk with other advisors in the UK and they can't believe how light the regulation is here. Look at how they were asleep at the wheel when all this reckless lending was going on? They went into Custom House Capital, saw them shifting clients money around and gave them a checklist that was to be completed in the future! They weren't shut down for another 3 years!!!
We need a regulator with real powers who will crack down on those abusing their position. At the moment everything is a box ticking exercise. You can be pulled up on having the wording off in a reasons why statement but they don't notice the dodgy fund that the money's gone into!
Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
Maybe I am a Red?
Regards, Gerry.
Maybe you are. You'll be voting Sinn Fein come the election
As we've seen in the US, the banks are right back doing what they did before. Citigroup wrote a provision that was passed by the House repealing a part of Dodds Frank allowing bank to go into the derivatives market with peoples deposits. Crazy stuff that should never be allowed but the Republicans rule the House and they'll bow to big business.
I don't think the solution is to simply own the banks. Tight regulation is but that isn't happening either.
Steady on Mr Barrett ! You are going Red (anger) on me.The way the US is governed is a joke. The State legislators decide on the constituencies for the House elections so gerrymandering is commonplace, resulting in a lot more republicans getting in than really should.
Once elected to the House, the representatives spend their time fund raising so they can get re elected. While I am aware big business has a lot of influence here, it is nothing compared to America (see Citigroup actually writing legislation!). Harmful chemicals such as angel dust is legal in the US so people are eating tainted meat all the time. All as a result of lobbying by big business. It goes on and on, big business making the decisions.
Steady on Mr Barrett ! You are going Red (anger) on me.
You are also correct on Businesses in USA (tainting) decisions.
On the Angel Dust issue, when some cowboys continued to use it here for a while , did they not get large hearts ? or was it enlarged hearts that killed a few?
Cannot resist !;Sorry Gerry! I get a bit annoyed when people talk about how great America is. There are a lot of great things about it but there are so many faults too, like how they put making money and big business way ahead of its people.
No idea on the side effects of angel dust. Just did a google search and one article claims farmers died of heart attacks from inhaling it. funny, athletes are banned from using steroids to bulk up but its alright to put those same chemicals in the food that they eat, and that is given to children?
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