... There is absolutely no reason why the cheque should be endorsed....
My question remains: Who has managed to sting BOI for something like this
It only seems daft to you because you have always operated a different way and were happy to do so. We're the same as you - we happily lodged unendorsed cheques to our joint (and only) account for years but in the past year or so, NIB have looked for cheques to be endorsed. However, I can understand it - if you look around on AAM, you will see that many people have an account each plus a joint account - the joint account being for household bills etc. If that's the way a couple operate, you can understand how one of them might be annoyed if a personal cheque was lodged to the joint account thereby giving the other person access to it - having a joint account doesn't give you dominion over all the other person's money. Now imagine a his, hers and joint situation where the couple are splitting up or have already split up and maintain a joint account for paying household bills, mortgage etc. - messy situation waiting to happen if the bank allow unendorsed cheques to be lodged to the joint account.Thanks Gulliver for the explanation and I would agree with your analysis, Brendan. But does the bank not have to publish the rule somewhere? i.e. for a customer to know that they have to endorse a cheque before lodging it into their own account, surely they need to be informed of that? And is it not absolutely daft?
having a joint account doesn't give you dominion over all the other person's money.
- having a joint account doesn't give you dominion over all the other person's money.
I wasn't referring to the money in the joint account but to 'all the other person's money'. A joint account gives you total control over the money in the joint account but not over all the other person's money. You couldn't access your wife's sole account any more than the bank should let you lodge to your joint account an unendorsed cheque in her name.I disagree. If the account is Repayable to Either, then there is no 'your money/my money' distinction.
Now imagine a his, hers and joint situation where the couple are splitting up or have already split up and maintain a joint account for paying household bills, mortgage etc. - messy situation waiting to happen if the bank allow unendorsed cheques to be lodged to the joint account.
Yes, if they know it’s there: separated couple, joint account for paying bills, revenue refund arrives in the post for A (who hasn’t changed official address yet), lodged by B unknown to A and then withdrawn by B before A realises = manure business for bank.If the money is lodged to the joint account (the one for paying bills) then either of the other two parties can move it out again.
I am struggling to understand how you can’t see the difference here. Your husband has consented to you having access to every cent in the joint account so the bank has no liability if they pay it all out to you. When a cheque arrives for your husband, this is new money, his and his only – until he consents to let you have access to it by endorsing the cheque/lodging it to the account. The bank can’t know the state of your relationship with your husband day after day so they can’t assume that he’s okay with giving you access to his new money – until they see his signature on the cheque.The bank has been "allowing" me to lodge unendorsed cheques for years and to me, it's daft. Primarily because they don't require any endorsement to move money out of the account...
I’m sure with over 99% of bank transactions, there won’t be a problem but that doesn’t mean the bank doesn’t have a duty of care which means that looking after the 1% means inconveniencing the 99%. The rule has to be clear and unambiguous – not, “sure if you’ve done it before and there’s plenty of money in the account, what’s the harm... “. And if 5x is okay, what about if there’s 3x the cheque amount – or 2x – where do you draw the line? And there could be 10x in the account because the separating couple are about to pay off a loan.To be honest orka, when the account has 5 times as much money in it as is being lodged, I can't see where the problem is.
At least a few times each year, I end up spitting feathers with annoyance at my bank (can’t believe their stupidity, treatment of me etc.) – I start writing letters of complaint, make plans to move to a different bank etc. Then I realise that they are all the same and they’ll never be anywhere near perfect and I have to work around whatever frustrations they throw my way – resistance is futile... Sad but true.My level of frustration with banks as a whole is just through the roof. I'll refrain from venting on a public forum in the future and ask them for a printed copy of their terms and conditions..
I am struggling to understand how you can’t see the difference here. Your husband has consented to you having access to every cent in the joint account so the bank has no liability if they pay it all out to you. When a cheque arrives for your husband, this is new money, his and his only – until he consents to let you have access to it by endorsing the cheque/lodging it to the account. The bank can’t know the state of your relationship with your husband day after day so they can’t assume that he’s okay with giving you access to his new money – until they see his signature on the cheque.
This is very confusing.
What is your niece's role? Is she just the messenger or is the joint account between you and your niece?
If you have a joint account with you and your niece, only a cheque made payable to you or your niece should be lodged to it without endorsement.
If a cheque made payable to your husband was lodged to that account, the bank is well withing its rights not to lodge the cheque to that account. If they do so, they are doing it for your convenience. Your husband could come along later and say that the bank gave you credit for the cheque in error. They would have to refund him the money and debit it from your account.
The bank can't win with customers like you. If they abide by the rules you call them difficult and thick. If they lodge the cheque you call them thick for taking the risk.
Brendan
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