Bank refusing to refund fraudulent debit card transactions - thief had pin

jim said:

As much as I dislike banks common sense suggests to me that the bank should not have to pay for ones negligEnce. Why does the bank need to refund you they haven't done anything wrong.

Also what is stopping anybody from walking into their bank and claiming that someone had obtained their pin and extracted 100k from their a/c? And then reuesting the bank pays you,in effect, that 100k. Makes no sense to me.

The only two things that could have happened here is you are fraudulently claiming that your pin and card was stolen. Or it was in fCt stolen in which case you were negligent.

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This is way harsh. She left her card in the hotel room, she did not disclose her pin no, she couldn't take the card swimming, she locked her room, she was as secure as if she were at home. She reported the lost card immediately. In circumstances like this, where thieves are able to get pins she should be refunded. She is not scamming and did nothing wrong, she was not negligent. She did it by the book. Banks have to take these things on the chin. She will win but she has to be persistant, that is the message from all the other posters on here.

jim said:

As much as I dislike banks common sense suggests to me that the bank should not have to pay for ones negligEnce. Why does the bank need to refund you they haven't done anything wrong.

Also what is stopping anybody from walking into their bank and claiming that someone had obtained their pin and extracted 100k from their a/c? And then reuesting the bank pays you,in effect, that 100k. Makes no sense to me.

The only two things that could have happened here is you are fraudulently claiming that your pin and card was stolen. Or it was in fCt stolen in which case you were negligent.

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There are actually plenty of other ways to get PIN numbers. They include shoulder surfing, (looking over someones shoulder at an ATM or POS), staff in a shop keeping a close eye on it or a camera fitted on an ATM or overlooking a POS terminal. In addition, cards can easily be cloned.

jim said:

As much as I dislike banks common sense suggests to me that the bank should not have to pay for ones negligEnce. Why does the bank need to refund you they haven't done anything wrong.

Also what is stopping anybody from walking into their bank and claiming that someone had obtained their pin and extracted 100k from their a/c? And then reuesting the bank pays you,in effect, that 100k. Makes no sense to me.

The only two things that could have happened here is you are fraudulently claiming that your pin and card was stolen. Or it was in fCt stolen in which case you were negligent.

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Nonsense. Using that logic, the victim of a well-planned series of crimes was negligent.

mathepac said:

Nonsense. Using that logic, the victim of a well-planned series of crimes was negligent.

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alleged victim. you are completely missing my point. all i am saying is that anybody can claim what the OP has claimed whether or not it has actually happened. in the OP's case I am sure they are an honest person and are genuinely the victim of a crime here!! but what is stopping a fraudster doing this i.e claiming what the OP has claimed.

Just to keep you updated we finally got a call from the bank today and they have agreed as a 'good will ' gesture to refund us our money. We appealed the case twice and after being in touch with the gardai they agreed to refund us.

@D4B great news. The bank had no grounds to refuse you as I said earlier. Well done for your persistence in the face of pig-headedness by the bank. They cannot afford to admit they were at fault but accept their "good will" gesture as an admission that security on these cards is very poor.

Well done D4B. PTSB wrongly charged me €2.50 Government Stamp Duty on my visa card when I had not used it once at any ATM all year. It took me 3 e-mails and I think 3 phone calls to finally get it credited to my a/c.

As a Country we just don't do Customer Service - never have and probably never will.

theresa1 said:

Well done D4B. PTSB wrongly charged me €2.50 Government Stamp Duty on my visa card when I had not used it once at any ATM all year. It took me 3 e-mails and I think 3 phone calls to finally get it credited to my a/c.

As a Country we just don't do Customer Service - never have and probably never will.

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Delighted to hear he good news. Have you any idea why the change by the banks attitude?

D4B said:

Just to keep you updated we finally got a call from the bank today and they have agreed as a 'good will ' gesture to refund us our money. We appealed the case twice and after being in touch with the gardai they agreed to refund us.

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I had the same 'Good Will' gesture done - but only after reporting them to the Regulator - Good will was hardly a factor in it!

Thank you all. I also sent a letter stating that I would seek legal advice. Not sure if that helped

D4B said:

Thank you all. I also sent a letter stating that I would seek legal advice. Not sure if that helped

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Hi D4B, Can I please ask you what bank you were dealing with? Also did you say that you were shoulder surfed?I am having a issue with this at the moment and finding things very hard. thanks for your help.

Nicola said:

Hi D4B, Can I please ask you what bank you were dealing with? Also did you say that you were shoulder surfed?I am having a issue with this at the moment and finding things very hard. thanks for your help.

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It's mentioned a number of times in the thread already.

One other thing to note, chip & PIN was introduced to protect the banks, not the consumer. Great money spinner for the banks too with customers that don't qualify for free transactions, they get a charge per transaction rather than one per ATM withdrawal that covers multiple transactions.

Check the terms and conditions you agreed to in relation to the card also, no doubt you agreed to bear any costs associated with fraud where the PIN was known to the perpetrator. PTSB clearly state this on their policy. So any refunds the banks are currently making are good-will gestures, as they're trying to wean us off our dependency on cash.

For contact-less payments referred to above, the banks will indemnify you if the card is stolen. Losses there will be limited anyway as generally only three contact-less payments of €15 or less are permitted in a row before the PIN will be requested.