I'd like to hear how you reached the "irrelevant" conclusion, unless it's by not reading or understanding posts fully.... however they are irrelevant in this case. The Bank provided a security system which the OP negated by leaving their cards unattended and allowing their PIN number to be discovered by a third party. ...
The situation you describe is not analogous with OP's. An analogy would be if you used your electronic key-fob to lock your car and thieves intercepted and decoded the signal on a mobile-phone and stole your car using this intercepted data, then I guess you'd be screaming down the phone at the dealer (not at the manufacturer as you have no contract with the manufacturer) to get your car back or a replacement.... If I leave my car keys unattended and my car is stolen. I don't go back to the car manufacturer demanding the value of my car back. I go to the police as it is a criminal matter and not the fault of the car manufacturer as I was negligent. ...
I called the financial ombudsman and they unfortunately said that because it is fraud they cannot get involved. It's a matter for the garda. .....
It has its benefits and attractions no doubt, but I know I didn't write to any of my banks saying "I want chip n pin and I want it NOW and I accept that the product is grossly inadequate from a security perspective and I accept all the risks and if I'm a pauper because of your plastic card, I will hold you blameless."I like chip and pin. I like being able to bank on my own time I like automated transactions. So it's not just the bank's driving this. Some of us customers want this too. ...
The fact that the PIN was discovered despite the customer not writing it down or giving it to anyone is all the evidence you need that chip n pin is inherently insecure, therefore they are accountable... We've no idea how the pin was discovered but, unless it was due to inadequate security by the bank, you can't really hold them accountable by default. Saying the bank is liable for shoulder surfing is laughable. ...
I have no idea. Maybe you need to start a new thread to get an answer.... If I withdraw cash and get mugged is that the bank's fault too for not providing security along with the cash? ...
I'm not sure who the saner heads are meant to belong to, but if the OP has the evidence that fraud was committed, then the bank has no need to make a "goodwill gesture" - they pay out on the basis that the customer was blameless and defrauded of funds due to a series of crimes and the bank's inadequate security on chip n pin cards.... OP keep raising it with the bank in a reasonable manner as others with saner heads have advised and there's a good (but not definite) chance they will refund as a goodwill gesture. Especially as you seem to already have evidence it was fraud.
Hi D4B
There is no hurry with your complaint. Reflect on it a bit more.
I think you should make it more formal - in writing rather than by email.
I think you should check out the cases on the Ombudsman website to see if you can learn anything from them.
Maybe even check out the UK Ombudsman website.
Maybe the Irish Banking and Payments Services group has a policy on it. Maybe even BoI has a policy on it.
For example, if the pattern of transactions was unusual, the bank's fraud detection system should have stopped some of the transactions.
Do a bit more research and then make your submission.
I am not convinced that the FSO has no role here if BoI rejects your complaint. So bear in mind that you should be making a very comprehensive submission which could be the basis of your submission to the FSO as well.
Also wait a while to see if the Gardaí come up with anything.
Brendan
It has its benefits and attractions no doubt, but I know I didn't write to any of my banks saying "I want chip n pin and I want it NOW and I accept that the product is grossly inadequate from a security perspective and I accept all the risks and if I'm a pauper because of your plastic card, I will hold you blameless."
Chip n pin was launched on the unsuspecting public on the heels of a massive advertising campaign which sold it as the greatest thing since sliced pan. No-one asked for it, demand was created by advertising. There are few if any real benefits for the user (other than doing for free work that bank tellers used to get paid for) but a massive payoff for the banks in moving business away from bricks and mortar branches.
The fact that the PIN was discovered despite the customer not writing it down or giving it to anyone is all the evidence you need that chip n pin is inherently insecure, therefore they are accountable
The customer was not negligent but had funds stolen because both the hotel and bank security measures combined failed to protect them from theft. A series of crimes, with evidence in support of them being perpetrated against the hotel guest & bank customer, resulted in the OP losing money. It is insane that the bank would think they can just wipe their hands and say it was the customer's fault and not their's.
I'm not sure who said shoulder surfing was the bank's liability, but the activity drives a coach and horses through the "security" of chip n pin card operations.
I have no idea. Maybe you need to start a new thread to get an answer.
I'm not sure who the saner heads are meant to belong to, but if the OP has the evidence that fraud was committed, then the bank has no need to make a "goodwill gesture" - they pay out on the basis that the customer was blameless and defrauded of funds due to a series of crimes and the bank's inadequate security on chip n pin cards.
The hotel have refunded our stay and gave us a cheque for 500 to put towards the cost of jewellery taken. Though there was no staff in the leisure centre. The thief found our room no from the sign in sheet
While I have nothing much to help specifically with your problem, you raise some issues re hotels.
I stay in various hotels up and down the country for leisure, weddings, w/e breaks etc. Last month there was no safe in the 4 star hotel room and no locks on the leisure centre changing lockers, and yes the sign in sheet was there for anyone to look at with room numbers etc. So, what happened to you could have happened to me.
Anyone can break into a hotel room and steal.
You say you reported the theft to bank within 10 minutes. Did the fraudulent transactions occur after you reported to bank?
Brendan I am 100% sure my pin was not written down anywhere. I have the same pin with 12 years and it is not an easy one to guess either. I understand that this is not the banks fault but it's a fraudulent case, is it not?
I am not holding hope we will get reimbursed. I called the financial ombudsman and they unfortunately said that because it is fraud they cannot get involved. It's a matter for the garda. .....
I had a friend who was followed and subsequently her card was stolen. They two involved then withdrew considerable amount of money from her account.
Following much writing and phoning she sent details to the Ombudsman who acted on her behalf and she got full refund, after many months.
Browtal
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