we have had numerous threads of people looking for legal loopholes that will allow them a quick exit from their problems.
Hear, hear
It is very unlikely that Aib will take action on the staff member here. , Too many of AIB staff were at (unusual) practices, opening one case of poor lending will only continue to show the contamination that permeated AIB.(AIB have a lot of form over unethical practices over the years)
Whilst there is no (reckless lending) law , if Alpha can show loss Aib will be forced to at least try to be fair.
Will this invalidate the loan?
- I have been trying to come to a resolution with AIB for the past 4 years offering them solutions
I have been offering these solutions over the past 4 years to no avail.
- I am a middle class person in severe financial distress looking for some advice.
- I am not looking for pity, just anything that might assist me in finding a joint solution with AIB.
- I found a discrepancy within my file and sought assistance on this site.
All, thanks for your responses (both sarcastic and honest).
Some points to note about my post:
- I have been trying to come to a resolution with AIB for the past 4 years offering them solutions (such as extensions, selling the property with a write-off on the remaining outstanding balance as the property is in Dublin and on a very good tracker rate, warehousing, etc..). I have been offering these solutions over the past 4 years to no avail. My thoughts are that I offered these solutions 2-3 years back when AIB was not in a position to handle them.
- I am not looking to get "a get out of jail free card".
- I am not a chancer nor am I am AIB.
- I am a middle class person in severe financial distress looking for some advice.
- I am not a strategic defaulter.
- I am not looking for pity, just anything that might assist me in finding a joint solution with AIB.
- I found a discrepancy within my file and sought assistance on this site.
My own personal thoughts are that this is internal fraud within the bank.
My follow on question to the site is as follow:
- Should I raise this point as part of my new negotiations with the bank or should I park it until negotiations have run its course?
Again all advice (both sarcastic and honest) is welcome.
As part of the Freedom of Information Act, I obtained my file. Within the file, I obtained my the underwriter notes and bank manager notes. The underwriter was not keen in approving the loan. It would seem that the Bank Manager made up a security (value of 300K) that I had offered to the bank as security. This seemed to have put the underwriter at ease. The loan was then approved.
This security never existed and I only found out about it thru reading the internal notes.
My own personal thoughts are that this is internal fraud within the bank.
My follow on question to the site is as follow:
- Should I raise this point as part of my new negotiations with the bank or should I park it until negotiations have run its course?
My own view is that it was not a case of staff members operating illegally, but of pressure from above to compete and lend as much as possible during the madness. It happened to me in my Bank, Ulsterbank, they were literally in such a rush to lend that all previous checks were thrown out the window, being offered more than was requested, not needing the usual documentation etc.
I suspect the bank will like you (or others) bringing up this topic as much as the board of the Central Remedial Clinic welcomed enquiries about renumeration and past practices within the top of the CRC. The thing is, it seems you have been under severe financial stress for years. What have you got to lose by reporting suspected fraud within the bank and letting some bankers share some stress, if they deserve it? I think sooner or later you have a moral duty to report it, so that such malpractice will not occur again so easily.
There is a big difference between offering more than was requested and making up figures on loan approval sheets....especially when as a result of those made up figures decisions were then made which changed peoples lives for the worse. Most bankers did not act fraudulently in their selfish pursuit of targets / bonuses, but imho those who did should face the music. Saying they were just following orders does not cut the mustard. There was supposed to be regulation. Soldiers in a democracy who commit war crimes are as much to blame as their leaders. The truth will out yet.[/QUOTE]
The OP got the loan that they applied for, they have not denied that, therefore whether there was fraudulent activity in relation to the "security" is moot.
The OP got the loan that they applied for, they have not denied that, therefore whether there was fraudulent activity in relation to the "security" is moot.
Moot, according to the dictionary, means something along the lines of "open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful".
Whether or not there was a fraud, is irrelevant to the OP's case - he is still fully liable for the loan.
My point was internal fraud in the bank should be investigated, and if necessary punished. The OP was wondering should he raise "this point as part of new negotiations with the bank or should (he) park it until negotiations have run its course?" I am wondering should he let the bank investigate it themselves, first at any rate, or else report it straight to the fraud section of the Gardai?
If fraud was discovered and it appears obvious the OP would not have got the loan without internal bank fraud, then imho it is open to debate (moot) if the OP should take 100% of the pain or not. You are possibly right, the OP may well take 100% of the pain under the law (and wink wink) as it stands in this country, but do you not agree the "bank made up security" case in this particular loan in this particular bank should be investigated anyway?
The OP has stated he is "not looking to get "a get out of jail free card"", but he has asked should he report the alleged fraud now or later - what do you think? Or should he just go straight to the fraud section of the Gardai?The OP asked if this would make his/her loan null and void and the answer to that is no.
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