"Bank customers should save themselves from scams"

joer

Registered User
Messages
527
Yes EmmDee but everyone had the same story , not just one or two. Also after people contacted the bank and told them after they clicked on the link and warned them of their suspicions and asked them to watch their Account , even days later there was money taken from their account They then got the letter from the bank saying that it was their own fault. Did you listen to Liveline?
 

Sunny

Registered User
Messages
4,179
I could get my 79 year old mother to explain it to yours if you like? This idea that all elderly people are unable to use technology or have some sense is offensive. If you haven't helped your elderly mother to do these things, then you should have helped to her use a simpler form of banking, which contrary to your statements is easily available.

Did I say every elderly person? So save your fake outrage. Good for your 79 year old mother. But not every 35 year old is the same and not every 79 year old is the same. Technology and the use of it comes easier to some people than others for numerous reasons. Doesn't mean one is more stupid than another or one lacks 'sense'.
 

EmmDee

Registered User
Messages
716
Yes EmmDee but everyone had the same story , not just one or two. Also after people contacted the bank and told them after they clicked on the link and warned them of their suspicions and asked them to watch their Account , even days later there was money taken from their account They then got the letter from the bank saying that it was their own fault. Did you listen to Liveline?

No I don't. I've quickly looked at the reports of various callers and none of them report they clicked a link and it showed their account details. Nor do any of them say there was private information in the texts. They do recount generic phising wording ("You have a payment being actioned") but not accurate personal data. So (unless shown otherwise) I'm assuming the "hackers had access to BOI data" folk are misinterpreting what was said - but open to correction.

If people contacted the bank, they should have been advised to change their details - passwords, PIN numbers, personal access numbers etc. If they weren't advised this, it is an error on the bank's side. It could be argued the bank should have forced changes if they can. But as it didn't involve cards these couldn't have been locked.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
44,665
This idea that all elderly people are unable to use technology or have some sense is offensive.

Let's not go off topic here.

The majority of people who are demanding that bank branches be kept open because they do not like or do not have access to the internet are older people.

But, of course, anyone of any age can fall for a scam.

Brendan
 

EO2020

Registered User
Messages
27
Technology and the use of it comes easier to some people than others for numerous reasons. Doesn't mean one is more stupid than another or one lacks 'sense'.

Banks have been saying for years and years never to click on a link in a text. Literally everyone should know that by now, its as basic as don't give anyone your pin. We can't absolve responsibility for people who don't even try to keep their account safe.

See my earlier post on trying to make a phone call to a bank and tell me how that is 'simple'

Then go in to the bank and speak to a real life person. There are still plenty of branches.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
44,665
I was just on AIB online banking now. This message has been there since 11th August, but I didn't notice it as there are so many such warnings.

Security alert 11th August 2020
AIB will never ask you to click on a link via EMAIL or TEXT message to review or block transactions, reactivate or log in to your account.
AIB will never contact you requesting codes from your Card Reader, Card Details or log in information for any reason.
If you have provided any of this information, please contact us immediately
 
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Thirsty

Registered User
Messages
3,457
Then go in to the bank and speak to a real life person. There are still plenty of branches.
Ha!
1. You make an appointment through the call centre (see earlier post on the barriers there).
2. If you have mobility or transport issues getting to a branch quickly isn't as straightforward as you might imagine; particularly if you live in a rural area.
3. If you are looking at fraud or possible fraud, then you can't afford to wait.

I will say it again; we have no idea of the barriers faced by elderly people in the use of modern day customer service systems - and don't get me started on eir....
 

joer

Registered User
Messages
527
There were very many callers to Liveline, so much so that it was covered for the week. People who did not hear it cannot really comment. By the way Brendan only for Liveline the Bank would have got away without having to refund their customers.
 
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Jim2007

Registered User
Messages
2,238
Ha!
1. You make an appointment through the call centre (see earlier post on the barriers there).
2. If you have mobility or transport issues getting to a branch quickly isn't as straightforward as you might imagine; particularly if you live in a rural area.
3. If you are looking at fraud or possible fraud, then you can't afford to wait.

I will say it again; we have no idea of the barriers faced by elderly people in the use of modern day customer service systems - and don't get me started on eir....

So how much are you will to pay for this service? Because that is what it comes down to at the end of the day. Say a annual charge of €100 per account for all account holders under 65?
 

Thirsty

Registered User
Messages
3,457
By the time a customer has reached their 80s, they have likely paid 6 decades of bank fees.

Companies move to these service models to save money and for no other reason; the least they can do is make their systems easier to use for customers who were children at a time when even TVs were unknown, never mind computers.
 

cremeegg

Registered User
Messages
3,561
I said that BOI text number was used by scammers because I received the scam text from the BOI number.

Hi cremeegg

I don't think that this is correct based on Romulan's post

Romulans post seems to disagree with this but makes no effort to explain. It’s no wonder even his wife doesn’t believe him.
 

jpd

Registered User
Messages
2,500
It is quite easy for a hacker, or, indeed, anyone with some technical knowledge of IT, to insert a number into the text message header so that it appears that the text came from a different number to the number used to send the text.
 

Dublinbay12

Registered User
Messages
529
I could get my 79 year old mother to explain it to yours if you like? This idea that all elderly people are unable to use technology or have some sense is offensive. If you haven't helped your elderly mother to do these things, then you should have helped to her use a simpler form of banking, which contrary to your statements is easily available.

I agree it is offensive. I actually think the older generation / elderly are less trusting of technology which is confused with not understanding technology. The younger generations (myself included) are far more trusting and accepting of technology.

My view is that Bank customers should save themselves from scams and that Banks should support them in doing so. Banks can take care of the technical aspects of cyber security / fraud. However, many of these scams are just variations of social engineering / phishing and will always require a conscious decision which is heard to systematically protect.

I am also of the opinion that If I get a speeding ticket, I can't say that the car manufacturer is to blame for making a car that lets me speed.

I could also argue that the government should be running campaigns to educate people on cybersecurity.
 

EmmDee

Registered User
Messages
716
There were very many callers to Liveline, so much so that it was covered for the week. People who did not here it cannot really comment.

Absolutely I can comment - I can also spell correctly.

It doesn't matter how much Joe talked about it on Liveline. The initial premise was that hackers had personal details of customers and therefore the customers weren't at fault because when they clicked, they saw information that only the bank should have and reasonably assumed they were connected to the bank. I'm only saying that there has been no evidence to support that claim that I have seen and that was has been reported to date looks like a general phising campaign that is seen regularly and the basic advice stands - don't click on links from unsolicited emails or texts. Initiate your own connection to a bank website.

Joe can talk about it for a month - doesn't change the situation. If there is actual evidence or even a claim that personal data was included in the texts or via the link in the text, then it is a serious breach of BOI security. If not, these folk were victims of an impersonation scam
 

EmmDee

Registered User
Messages
716
I said that BOI text number was used by scammers because I received the scam text from the BOI number.

You actually didn't - you received the scam text from another source but it was packaged up to look like it came from the BOI number.

If people really want a windmill to tilt at, their ire would be better aimed at telecoms who can presumably see widespread "marketing" texts being sent across their networks and might be able to identify where a sender number has been altered or is not the same as the actual sender (not sure about the second part of that)
 

cremeegg

Registered User
Messages
3,561
If there is actual evidence or even a claim that personal data was included in the texts or via the link in the text, then it is a serious breach of BOI security. If not, these folk were victims of an impersonation scam

How did the scammers use the banks text number to send the messages. If they were able to get the banks details to do so that is a serious breach of BOI security.

Some posters suggest that it is a simple matter to send a text from one number that appears to come from another.

It is quite easy for a hacker, or, indeed, anyone with some technical knowledge of IT, to insert a number into the text message header so that it appears that the text came from a different number to the number used to send the text.

I don't find this convincing, if it were a simple matter that could be done without access to the banks details, surely it would happen more often.
 

odyssey06

Registered User
Messages
3,371
How did the scammers use the banks text number to send the messages. If they were able to get the banks details to do so that is a serious breach of BOI security.
Some posters suggest that it is a simple matter to send a text from one number that appears to come from another.
I don't find this convincing, if it were a simple matter that could be done without access to the banks details, surely it would happen more often.

It's very easy to imitate the sending number - it seems more a flaw in SMS system than anything re: banks in particular.

And even easier to spoof a the sending email address. I have done that myself easily enough.
I remember ructions in a previous employer when a colleague 'pranked' another colleague by sending an email pretending to be from HR...
 
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