Auctioneers need to learn

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Aimee

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I want to throw this out for the moment, it is one thing that totally drives me crazy and I think its about time something was done about it.

Auctioneers go out there and sell properties for clients - fab, has to be done! But auctioneers obviously do not know whether in fact title to the property is in the sellers name, whether they have planning permission and certs of compliance where applicable, whether there are any right of ways/easements registered over the property etc etc etc!

Now the client comes along to their solicitor, and big bad wolf solicitors seems to cause a problem with the sale because of some old "title" problem!

The solicitor, who is now the baddie, delays everything, works to the bone to solve any problem and gets bad publicity and mouth, grief and yet people still complain!

AUCTIONEERS need to know before taking properties on their books that title is 100% in order, and all supporting documentation is in order for contracts to issue immediately when a sale is agreed and it should be down to the auctioneer to ensure all is in order before he/she agrees the sale and informs people that the deal will close without delay - the auctioneer could not possibly know this!


To the public - please ensure that if you decide to sell your property GO to your solicitor first to check your title

Auctioneers needs to take on more responsibility in selling properties - in this day and age it is insufficient to just show people around a property and take no responsibility once the deal is agreed - this matter needs to be looked at seriouslly in Ireland
 
Don't most autioneer's brochures have a standard disclaimer along the lines of: "We are advised by the vendor that title is freehold and no easements injurious blah blah etc." ? I suppose an auctioneer should be able to furnish a letter or certificate from the vendor's solicitor governing the title of the property.
 
I am preparing a letter for submission to the relevant powers. I feel that auctioneers should play a more involved role legally to ensure a person can sell their property etc etc.

The disclaimer really is just saying that they know nothing, think thats what the title is about and dont really give a toss - in all fairness the majority of the public would not have a clue what their title is.

And yes, I totally agree, an auctioneer should be able to produce a letter from the vendors solicitors confirming title is in order - its not gonna add a lot to their load now in fairness to request such a letter.
 
So have there been instances of EA's auctioning a property that they should not? (e.g. owner hasn't given permission)?
 
Lauren said:
So have there been instances of EA's auctioning a property that they should not? (e.g. owner hasn't given permission)?
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At auction Lauren the contracts have to be drawn up, therefore title has been researched and all matters legally have to be in order before the auction takes place.

Its private treaty that causes the probs as mentioned above.

You mention the owner not giving permission - not quite sure where that came from but I would hope an auctioneer would never do such a thing LOL!
 
Is it not the responsibility of the vendor to ensure that their documents are in order prior to placing their property on the open market?
I would interpret estate agency as the auctioneer acting as an agent on behalf of the vendor. The auctioneer may remind, and in most cases I know of does, the vendor that in order to dispose or let a property they need to have their title in order. However as the owner of the property, I would see it as the vendor's responsibility to ensure their title is prepared for sale/letting
If you sell a car, do you not have your registration documents, NCT Cert & tax disc up to date?
 
mo3art said:
Is it not the responsibility of the vendor to ensure that their documents are in order prior to placing their property on the open market?
I would interpret estate agency as the auctioneer acting as an agent on behalf of the vendor. The auctioneer may remind, and in most cases I know of does, the vendor that in order to dispose or let a property they need to have their title in order. However as the owner of the property, I would see it as the vendor's responsibility to ensure their title is prepared for sale/letting
If you sell a car, do you not have your registration documents, NCT Cert & tax disc up to date?
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Agreed. However, as the estate agent is the first person a vendor will approach, remember the majority will not have a clue about the legal side/title deeds etc, most people decide to sell and put the property with an auctioneer thinking once a figure is agreed the matter will go through in approx 6 weeks thereafter - which is what estate agents tell vendor (how they could know without any knowledge of a persons title baffles me!!!!) - therefore it is the estate agents place to explain to any vendor that in order for all matters to run smoothly once a sale is agreed that title must be in order. And it is not good enough for an auctioneer to just pass this information on - in this day and age it should be vital that a vendor has a letter confirming the property is saleable from the vendors solicitors! Its not a lot to ask - it makes complete sense and it would avoid any delay in a house being sold / purchased.

How many people on here have had problems with buying or selling a house???? And how much of these problems are caused by complicated title???? And how many of these people who agreed to purchase or indeed sell were aware that their title / title they were about to require was not in order???? and when did people find there was a problem, NOT at the estate agents, OH NO, only when they went to their solicitor did the problem pop its head!

Estate agents need to take a hand on things - does a shop person ensure products are not out of date YES, does a hairdresser ensure she is using the right colour in a persons hair YES ----- does an estate agent know that the property he or she is selling is saleable NO!

I rest my case. This needs to change!
 
Aimee are you sure that your comments are not fueled by a personal experience?
As I mentioned above, the Estate Agent/Auctioneer is just that - an agent. It is up to the vendor to ensure that their title is in order. It is the estate agent's responsibility to remind the vendor that they should check their title. However the estate agent is only acting on the vendor's behalf.

If the vendor informs the estate agent that they will be selling a property, is it not an unreasonable assumption for the estate agent to make that the property is available to the open market?

Maybe I would be more thorough than most but I certainly ensure that my title is in order before completing a sale or letting.
 
Honestly it is nothing personal, please believe me and I am not tarnishing auctioneers here, I just feel it would avoid a lot of hassles if an auctioneer were required to check with the solicitors before negotiating any property that the title is ok. In effect the auctioneer is not doing alot by checking this, the job still lies with the solicitor, but it avoids the hassle of a dodgy title down the road when everyone is set to sell/purchase/mortgage/move.

My view on this would make the work of all involved a little easier when it comes to completing the transaction legally, no more no less and good for you that you do check it out, I know some do, I don't deny that, but I feel it should be compulsory for an auctioneer to have checked it out before advertising any property for sale.
 
"Honesty it's nothing personal" yeah right!

Half the time it's solicitors leaving titles in a mess that creates this problem. Especially outside Dublin, they're nutorious for not registreing titles correctly! And vendors often are not very straight about things to begin with. They say the title is in order because they assume it will be in time to close. BTW: I am not an estate agent!
 
>Half the time it's solicitors leaving titles in a mess that creates this problem. Especially outside Dublin, they're nutorious for not registreing titles correctly! <

You might set out your support for the above statement.

Please.
 
so solicitors in Dublin are what in comparison with solicitors in the rest of the country Healy1?????

and no, I didn't think for one minute you were an estate agent :rolleyes:
 
Aimee, I am no lover of either estate agents or the legal profession, but in fairness I believe that the principle function of the estate agent is to introduce buyers to sellers and vice versa. Yes it would be great if the vendors could be straight and up-front with title information etc, but the fact of the matter is that estate agents have to put up with quite a few 'pok pies' themselves when it comes to house sales. It would be unfair and probably unwise to expect estate agents to 'know' when a title is in order - especially if they are only going on the word of the vendor.
 
Heaven forbid we give estate agents a little responsibility then, this seems to be the feed back!

Simple scenario - vendor approachs estate agent - "I want to sell my house" - estate agent visits property and surveys, giving his valuation, estate agent speaks with vendor and asks about his title - estate agent asks for solicitors name and telephone number and rings/writes to solicitor to confirm property is about to be put on market and asks the solicitor if title is in order - if not estate agent is at least putting solicitor on notice that the property is being sold and the title must be saleable!

I am amazed by the reaction here - and it just proves what I was thinking all along - people really don't understand how simple things could really be - we are living in a world where everyone wants to complicate things! Good grief!
 
Digger - I have worked in mortgages and have come accross plenty of title issues in my time. I was involved in recruiting solicitors for conveyances for a lender. On a personal level, I have had two titles messed up by solicitors outside Dublin - I also have friends in the profession and I have heard some terrible stories where titles have been left in a mess or not registered at all. However, there are some great legal firms outside Dublin but I can't name any! There has to be some good ones by "the law of averages". Aimee - I have to say; I think you are being a little harsh on the estate agents, although they can be hard to deal with at times. Moreover, I would never rely on an estate agents word as to a title being in order!
 
Aimee said:
I am amazed by the reaction here - and it just proves what I was thinking all along - people really don't understand how simple things could really be - we are living in a world where everyone wants to complicate things! Good grief!
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Arguably some people are living in a world in which all responsibility should be pushed onto others and off the individual.
 
I don't think its good enough for estate agents to market property or developments that do not have proper planning permission.

A particular property in my own neck of the woods was put up for sale about a year ago. Some months later an application for 'retention' planning permission was lodged with the local authority. The property remains on the market, unsold. Although I can't be sure of this, I suspect that at least one prospective purchaser wasted plenty of time and resources in bidding for this property, organising finance etc, before finding out about the planning snag.
 
ClubMan said:
Arguably some people are living in a world in which all responsibility should be pushed onto others and off the individual.
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My point exactly ClubMan - it's each property owner's responsibility to ensure their title is in order. An estate agent can only act on the property owners instructions.......
 
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