Laya Are the Laya price cuts genuine?

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1204/664538-laya/

Back in January, I pointed out that Laya has two identical policies where one is €1,700 dearer than the other.

I decided to see how much Laya charges for the full bells and whistles cover. I ended up with the following choice

Company CareGold: €3,437
HealthManager Gold: €5,134

I could see no difference so I rang them. They told me that there was no difference - just that Healthmanager is an old policy and few people opt for it.
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Others have told me that they had experienced the same thing.

And Dermot Goode said on Morning Ireland today, that after the cuts, some policies are still more expensive than identical policies with different names from Laya.

If they have cut the cost of Health Manager Gold by 20%, it's still wrong.

According to their press release, they have "announced significant price reductions of between 10-19% across 12 of its products"


Laya has 120 plans, so cutting price cuts of 10% on 10 of these, could be a reduction of 1% overall. In fact, it could be less if it has cut the prices on its least popular policies.

Brendan
 
They are not genuine imo. Connect Choice and Essentail Connect Family are good value now but the majority of the plans reducing in pric are old expensive plans which already have been replaced by Laya with cheaper alternatives.

Good publicity though.
 
Can there not be some regulation in this area - making all the providers offer a maximum of say....20 plans?
 
Mexicola said:
the majority of the plans reducing in pric are old expensive plans which already have been replaced by Laya with cheaper alternatives.

.
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Hi Mexicola

Can you give specific examples of this?

By complete coincidence, I spoke at an Insurance Ireland conference on Wednesday and called on insurance companies to show loyalty to existing customers and not to exploit their inertia. I gave the specific example of Laya charging higher prices for identical policies.

I spoke to the MD of Laya privately afterwards and he denied it. He told me that there must have been a reason for the price difference.
 
serotoninsid said:
Can there not be some regulation in this area - making all the providers offer a maximum of say....20 plans?
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I feel a campaign coming on...

Maybe the Health Insurance Authority should prohibit the introduction of new plans which are no different from existing plans?

Insurance companies should not be allowed to introduce an existing policy under a different name for say employees of Google. That is against the spirit of community rating.
 
Techically I bet the plans are not EXACTLY the same...eg on one you get €15 euros for a GP visit the other you get €14 euros for a GP visit. They could just tweak the plans by a smidgeon to get around it.

It becomes very obvious when one is doing comparisons on the HIA.ie tool.

In recent years access to 'all the information' is also becoming more of a distinction between different groups of the population.
People who have internet access, and skills to use it, are at a distinct advantage.
People who rely solely on ringing the health insurer on the phone are at a disadvantage...because they can't possibly get all the information.
What I want is ALL the information, in a way that is reasonable and fair for an average user/person to be able to consume.

So people who don't know any better are funding my cheaper health insurance.
 
What I want is ALL the information, in a way that is reasonable and fair for an average user/person to be able to consume.

Problem with receiving all the information is then finding the relevant sections amongst all the dross.
 
So people who don't know any better are funding my cheaper health insurance.
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Hi Sadie! I'm intrigued by your comment. Can you advise what plan you finally decided on and how you managed to cut through the dross to decide upon the cheapest plan the met all of your needs. I have trawled through the Net and also HEA site but plan explanations are very broad and I'm finding it very difficult to understand exactly what I get for my money!!
 
I'm not singling Laya out here at all. I've been insured with them for a few years now and they treat me very well. Similar examples as these can be found with VHI and Aviva as well.

Take these two for example:

Health Manager Gold - €7161 per adult (sorry should have warned you to get a chair)
Flex 150 Choice - €1487 per adult
[broken link removed]

Look at Inpatient and Outpatient benefits.
With the cheaper option you actually get MORE Outpatient benefits.

The Flex 150 there are excesses to be paid in a few cases to cover some hi-tech hospital stays. But you'd need to be staying 28 nights per year at the excess of 200 per night to make it worth paying the extra 5.5k.
HOWEVER, if you had a condition that you knew you would be needing hi-tech hospital stays frequently, and could afford it, then 7k will get you that 'free' which is fair enough. But for the cheaper option above for 6k less, a private room in the Blackrock clinic is fully covered

Here's a lovely example:
You are getting LESS cover in the in-patient benefit for more than double the premium. And significantly less maternity cover. In fact less of everything for €1k+ more.
[broken link removed]

Laya ConnectCare 100 €1186
Laya Personal Care €2316

So in that case if I get ConnectCare for the cheaper price, the Personal Care people are helping to fund my cheaper insurance.

I posted here about the plan I chose in the end.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=190420
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Mexicola

Can you give specific examples of this?

By complete coincidence, I spoke at an Insurance Ireland conference on Wednesday and called on insurance companies to show loyalty to existing customers and not to exploit their inertia. I gave the specific example of Laya charging higher prices for identical policies.

I spoke to the MD of Laya privately afterwards and he denied it. He told me that there must have been a reason for the price difference.
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Hi Brendan,

I can't post links as I haven't made enough posts yet, if you want me to drop you a PM let me know
 
This would defo be a campaign I'd support- the myriad of policies are designed to confuse and rip-off the least aware consumers.

A minimum of policies with a minimum of clearly identifiable add-ons.

Surely the circa 500 employees of the Dept of Health could find some time to formulate legislation on this!
 
I can't post links till I have a few more posts but for starters if you compare:

Total health Select / Company Care Premium No Excess
Health Smart / Flex 125 Explore
Flex 250 Explore / Essential Connect saver
HealthManager Gold / Empower Secure (No Excess) / Company Care Gold
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I feel a campaign coming on...
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Certainly would have my full support. Change in this area has been badly needed for quite a while.
Brendan Burgess said:
Maybe the Health Insurance Authority should prohibit the introduction of new plans which are no different from existing plans?
Insurance companies should not be allowed to introduce an existing policy under a different name for say employees of Google. That is against the spirit of community rating.
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What sadie said - i'm sure with most plans there are minute differences. Any measure would have to go further and limit the total number of plans offered. Is there anyone here who with more knowledge in this area that could indicate the number of plans it would be reasonable to allow the providers market? (as right now, I'm thinking the fewer the better!).

Kerry Gooner said:
Problem with receiving all the information is then finding the relevant sections amongst all the dross.
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Well, if the number of policies is curbed then the task becomes a hell of a lot easier. Furthermore, interpretation becomes easier for comparison sites - which people can then use to make an informed decision. The hia's comparison tool is rendered useless by virtue of the fact that the results come back with an unwieldy number of plans on any given search.

sadie said:
So people who don't know any better are funding my cheaper health insurance.
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With the greatest will in the world, it's so complex that the vast majority don't have the time or will power to make an effective comparison.
 
Perhaps each Medical Insurance provider should have to rank their own plans in order, by category (e.g. in patient, out patient, day to day medical, maternity).
That way, people can instantly see all plans with higher in patient cover when compared against their current plan.
 
It is fairly obvious that the industry is deliberately creating confusion in order to ensure that people take out a more expensive policy than needed. Many on existing expensive plans would welcome a reduction in the price of their premiums. However, it would appear that instead of reducing the price on existing plans the suppliers are introducing new ones with very minor differences in order to grow market share.
There appears to be no incentive to provide clarity in the sector.
In fact as time progress the nature and amount of plans on offer appear to becoming more extensive and confusing. AAM can generally find an expert contributor on all subjects. But it would appear that as yet no expert in this sector has come forward. Surely there is at least one employee of Laya/VHI or Aviva who has the inside track and can throw some clarity on the issue!!
 
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44brendan said:
I have trawled through the Net and also HEA site but plan explanations are very broad and I'm finding it very difficult to understand exactly what I get for my money!!
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Delboy said:
This would defo be a campaign I'd support- the myriad of policies are designed to confuse and rip-off the least aware consumers.

A minimum of policies with a minimum of clearly identifiable add-ons.
Click to expand...

serotoninsid said:
With the greatest will in the world, it's so complex that the vast majority don't have the time or will power to make an effective comparison.
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I'm in the same boat, loads of different plans which are very confusing so have left it to a broker...told them broadly what I need and what I'm paying at the moment..
 
When I first twigged this, and Laya told me there was no difference between these two policies other than the fact that the Health Manager Gold was an old policy.

Company CareGold: €3,437
HealthManager Gold: €5,134

I see that Mexicola has identified these as well "HealthManager Gold / Empower Secure (No Excess) / Company Care Gold "


Here are the differences today

|Company Care Gold|Health Manager Gold
Price|€4,147|€7161
convalescence|€120 x 14|€150 x 14
Maternity
Home births|€3,750|€3,900
Outpatient consultant care|€650|€750
post-natal nursing |€1,450 for 2 nights|€1,500 for 2 nights
Pre/post natal care|€600|€750
child counselling|covered|not covered
parent accompanying child|covered|not covered
Out-patient
Consultant fees|75%|50%
GP Visit|75%|50%
etc, etc
It appears that the benefits are lower for the more expensive policy. I can't find any item where I might benefit by paying more. Would someone else have a look to see if I am missing something?

And yet people with Health Manager Gold are paying €3,000 a year more through simply renewing without making any comparison.

I suppose if you can afford to pay €7,161 a year for health insurance, you are probably not terribly price sensitive.

Do some consumers simply ring up and say "Give me the most expensive product on the shelf, as it must be the best?"
 
Green said:
I'm in the same boat, loads of different plans which are very confusing so have left it to a broker...told them broadly what I need and what I'm paying at the moment..
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Given the current scenario, it's understandable if people opt for a broker.

However, there are issues with that also. How is the broker paid? Are they incentivised in pushing one plan above another?

over and above that, it would be far more progressive to remove the blatantly contrived complexity from the buying decision and enable the consumer to make an informed buying decision.

That can only be achieved by setting an upper limit on the number of plans offered by each insurer.
 
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