Are gold "backed" cryptos worthless ?

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MrEarl

Registered User
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Hi,

Given all that's been said here about whether or not Bitcoin has any real value, I'd be interested in reading peoples views on whether gold backed cryptos have a value or not ?

As a staring point, I'd ask people to do two things:

  1. Step away from Bitcoin - it's only one crypto and while it's the most famous, it's not relevant here as it is not "backed" by gold etc.
  2. Have a quick look over a few of the following links, to get a bit of background on how some of the gold backed cryptos work, what organisations are behind them etc.

Cryptocurrency backed by gold being developed by Perth Mint to entice investors back to precious metals



[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

Goldmint

So,

Are these cryptos essentially worthless, or some even a near ponzi scheme ?

or,

Do they actually have a tangible value that separates them from the majority of other cryptocurrencies and give a level of comfort to those who have firmly believed that all cryptos are worthless ?

 
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Is the Royal Mint coin a cryptocurrency?

Her Majesty’s Royal Mint Launches Gold Trading On Blockchain

Why is this only being reported in the crypto media?

Why do the main newspapers not carry the story?

Brendan
 
OK, it's not a crypto currency at all. It's just a digital way of buying and selling gold.

A bit like a gold ETF.

Brendan

[broken link removed]

What is RMG?
RMG is an alternative way to invest in and trade physical gold.

It aims to provide the investment performance of the London Gold Market with the transparency of an exchange-traded asset. Each RMG represents direct ownership of 1g of fine gold, held in the form of segregated London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) Good Delivery bars and smaller gold bars. All gold is held within the highly secure storage facilities inThe Royal Mint’s vault and The Royal Mint acts solely as sub-custodian and has no claim on the gold.
 
MrEarl said:
Given all that's been said here about whether or not Bitcoin has any real value, I'd be interested in reading peoples views on whether gold backed cryptos have a value or not ?
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Are they all not centralised? A central authority has to be trusted to maintain the gold that backs the currency. That takes us into similar trust issues as with Bitfinex/Tether.

Don't forget Petro Gold ;-)
Actually, it forms a good case study - lets face it, nobody is going to trust Nicolas Maduro to maintain those reserves!
 
Very hard to understand what RMG is. It is described as using blockchain technology which is then explained in a footnote as a cryptographic process which is validated not by a central authority but by the various nodes in the network i.e. by "miners". And yet that doesn't seem to be the case, how do the miners get rewarded for example?

Is it a currency? It can be bought and sold on exchanges but it doesn't seem to lend itself to being a SmartPhone App with QR codes that can be used to buy latte.

As to trusting the Royal Mint surely only the most died in the wool advocates of Shortie Syndrome would have a difficulty here. This is not the same as trusting sterling. Of course one has to have confidence in the future value of gold.

To repeat an earlier observation, the blockchain technology of itself will not affect one iota the underlying value of the gold that is being exchanged on the blockchain. Unlike bitcoin whose only claim to value seems to be that it is delivered by blockchain technology.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Very hard to understand what RMG is. It is described as using blockchain technology which is then explained in a footnote as a cryptographic process which is validated not by a central authority but by the various nodes in the network i.e. by "miners". And yet that doesn't seem to be the case, how do the miners get rewarded for example?
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Their own 'miners' on their own centralised network?

Duke of Marmalade said:
As to trusting the Royal Mint surely only the most died in the wool advocates of Shortie Syndrome would have a difficulty here. This is not the same as trusting sterling. Of course one has to have confidence in the future value of gold.
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If given the choice between storing my own wealth digitally (working on the assumption here that I'm happy to take on the responsibility involved with that) or have another centralised authority do so on my behalf, I'd opt for the former.
Institutions are made up of people. People err all the time, people can act in their own self interest at the expense of others. That's breaking it down into basic fundamentals.
Is it unlikely right now that the Royal Mint wouldn't serve this purpose? Right now, sure. However, nothing stays the same. Ask the Bank of Cyprus customers that had their euro wiped away. Furthermore, you always seem to talk in terms of UK or US analogies ...and perhaps euro-centric ones. There's a whole planet out there. You think that Maduro's version of the Royal Mint would serve the same purpose? What about all the other similar state institutions worldwide? Cryptocurrencies don't recognise borders so they are to be considered on a global scale.

Duke of Marmalade said:
To repeat an earlier observation, the blockchain technology of itself will not affect one iota the underlying value of the gold that is being exchanged on the blockchain. Unlike bitcoin whose only claim to value seems to be that it is delivered by blockchain technology.
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Eh, no - bitcoin has many facets - one central one being that it's decentralised. In respect of the OP and the discussion he has set out, lets not go down the rabbithole of making claim and counter claim re. bitcoin and stick with the subject area i.e. Gold backed cryptos.
 
tecate said:
Is it unlikely right now that the Royal Mint wouldn't serve this purpose? Right now, sure. However, nothing stays the same. Ask the Bank of Cyprus customers that had their euro wiped away. Furthermore, you always seem to talk in terms of UK or US analogies ...and perhaps euro-centric ones. There's a whole planet out there. You think that Maduro's version of the Royal Mint would serve the same purpose? What about all the other similar state institutions worldwide? Cryptocurrencies don't recognise borders so they are to be considered on a global scale.
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I was discussing RMG. This is backed by the Royal Mint. I see that you are even more steeped in Shortie Syndrome than its chief proponent and as far as you are concerned Royal Mint is only a tad behind Bank of Cyprus and Maduro in terms of (lack of) trustworthiness. I think that is a gross misjudgment but I won't try and persuade you.

The Royal Mint state that they are backing the RMG with ring fenced gold bullion. We would be talking outright fraud by the Royal Mint for this to cease to be the case. I accept that you believe that this is far from being unlikely.

As to OP I would be confident that RMG is worth the gold that is backing it. Indeed it does seem to be a cost effective way to get exposure to gold. However I would be nervous about subscribing. It has been so under the radar I would need convincing that it is not some scam and that I was indeed dealing with the Royal Mint.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
I was discussing RMG. This is backed by the Royal Mint.
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Indeed you were. However you're going out of your way to take every opportunity to kick decentralised crypto in the guts. That's your agenda - it's not what this thread is about.
Duke of Marmalade said:
I see that you are even more steeped in Shortie Syndrome than its chief proponent and as far as you are concerned Royal Mint is only a tad behind Bank of Cyprus and Maduro in terms of (lack of) trustworthiness. I think that is a gross misjudgment but I won't try and persuade you.

The Royal Mint state that they are backing the RMG with ring fenced gold bullion. We would be talking outright fraud by the Royal Mint for this to cease to be the case. I accept that you believe that this is far from being unlikely
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Firstly, be as derogatory as you wish towards other contributors - knock yourself out.
As regards twisting what I said, I clearly said it would be unlikely but possible in the case of the RM. You chose to comment on that and still had to twist it yet no comment on the integrity of similar institutions in other countries.

Duke of Marmalade said:
As to OP I would be confident that RMG is worth the gold that is backing it. Indeed it does seem to be a cost effective way to get exposure to gold. However I would be nervous about subscribing. It has been so under the radar I would need convincing that it is not some scam and that I was indeed dealing with the Royal Mint.
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Confident but nervous and maybe it's a scam.... I'll take the 5th on this one.

Looking forward to actual discussion on gold backed crypto here.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Make no mistake I would never invest in Maduro assets or in Cyprus banks. What point are you making?
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The point was very clear but you decided to deliberately misinterpret it and misrepresent it whilst ignoring aspects that you can't deal with.
I quite clearly stated that it was unlikely that the RM wouldn't discharge it's duties but still a possibility (yet you state I say the opposite).
The other point is that the World involves more states than what are currently the most stable ones. A gold backed CENTRALISED crypto in many other states throughout the World would be much more prone to corruption or misappropriation. No such acknowledgement of same from you.

Otherwise I acknowledge what you say in terms of Cyprus. IE. Euro being a centralised FIAT currency wouldn't work for you if you happened to be a Cypriot National/Resident. Quite a sad situation if you happened to be Cypriot. I guess you'd just have to keep those euro under the mattress....unless there was another solution...
 
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I don't know why the "Goldman Sachs in the Crypto Exchange business..." thread was locked? Presumably someone had some reason to shut down the topic?

Nevermind.

The Royal Mint.

Other than understanding its role in producing and circulating British coins, I'm not overly familiar with its operations or overall status. So a little bit of Wiki history goes a long way.

Its origins can be traced back to 1279 and perhaps even before then. It is no doubt a fine, upstanding, trustworthy (but still falling short of trustless) institution.

Crucially, it has stood the test of time, instilling confidence!

That said, notable moments include the 1540's wars with France and Scotland which led Henry VIII to enact "The Great Debasement" , brought on by excessive government spending - what on earth could this be about, I wonder? :oops:

Apparently (I'm no expert here), it was a policy introduced by the King "which saw the amount of precious metal in gold and silver coins reduced and in some case replaced entirely with cheaper base metals such as copper." :confused:

"The English Civil War", British parliament sized control of the mint (located within the Tower of London) from the Crown. In turn Charles I established 16 'emergency' mints across Britain and Ireland in order to produce coins 'quickly', using silver plates and foreign coins - that was handy! :)

By the 18th century, 10% of the British coinage were estimated to be forgeries. But hey, that was like....yonks ago!
Stuff like all that doesn't, couldn't, happen today. Right? (Not forgetting of course the removal of gold coins from circulation in 1914 at the outbreak of WWI by order of the Chancellor of the Exchequer).

So, in fairness to the OP and the questions asked, and with one eye on the obvious bait comments above trying to demean, disregard, ridicule, my own views, I thought it prudent to perhaps consider buying some Royal Mint coinage. I mean, who wouldn't have a stash of it, even a tiny holding, given its trustworthiness through the centuries?

It transpires, Royal Mint, has its own website with a link to 'Shop'. This space is a real treasure trove. You can buy a silver coin with legal tender of 10p....for the sum of £35!
But these are not any ordinary 10p coins...they are special coins!

Check it out, for £35, you can obtain a 10p coin that is quintessential British!


https://www.royalmint.com/coinhunt/sterling-silver-coins/

A 10p coin with 'James Bond', 'Double Decker Bus' and lots, lots more....including my favourite 'Fish 'n Chips'.....all for just :D:D£35:D:D - Cushty!

And according to the site, due to "unprecedented demand" they have "increased capacity" for these coins - how convenient!


Who wouldn't trust a Royal Mint cryptocurrency backed by gold as advertised by silver haired, middle aged tanned men with great teeth, who will give you a FREE brochure?


That is where the likes of Bitcoin falls down, it's marketing department is non-existent.:(
 
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tecate said:
I quite clearly stated that it was unlikely that the RM wouldn't discharge it's duties but still a possibility (yet you state I say the opposite).
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Ahh you are not a true believer. The high priest of Shortie Syndrome has confirmed that the chicanery of the Royal Mint is a central tenet of the faith. This is evidenced not only by the acts of Henry VIII but that even today they are pedaling 10p trinkets for £35:mad:
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Ahh you are not a true believer. The high priest of Shortie Syndrome has confirmed that the chicanery of the Royal Mint is a central tenet of the faith. This is evidenced not only by the acts of Henry VIII but that even today they are pedaling 10p trinkets for £35
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While no doubt they act as trinkets and are simply founded on the concept of gimmickery, of deluding nostalgic Brits (probably there is a strong market in the UKIP/DUP/Tory ranks) into parting with their cash, they are still considered legal tender. We had trinket 50p coins in Dublin to celebrate the millenium in 1988. There was a limit on them but they were pretty abundant. The issue price? - well, 50p of course, what else?

But aside from all that, while it has been stated that the RM is undoubtedly good for its word, today. History has shown that in certain circumstances, typically circumstances beyond its control, that those whose job it is to preserve its status, and that of the UK itself, will try to manipulate those circumstances to engineer outcomes preferential to its interests.

Im just wondering, is there anything at all on the horizon, that may cause some significant disruption to the UK economy and in turn, that may lead to some devaluation of UK currency?
Or is everything just fine and dandy, so much so that you have no hesitation in parting with your cash to invest in some RM crypto backed by gold?
 
MrEarl said:
Are these cryptos essentially worthless, or some even a near ponzi scheme ?
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Going back to your original question. I dont think they are worthless but in my opinion they do contain the whiff of gimmickery.
Simply playing on the lingo of the day 'crypto', 'blockchain' etc to try sell something that already has other means to be sold.
 
TheBigShort said:
But aside from all that, while it has been stated that the RM is undoubtedly good for its word, today. History has shown that in certain circumstances, typically circumstances beyond its control, that those whose job it is to preserve its status, and that of the UK itself, will try to manipulate those circumstances to engineer outcomes preferential to its interests.

Im just wondering, is there anything at all on the horizon, that may cause some significant disruption to the UK economy and in turn, that may lead to some devaluation of UK currency?
Or is everything just fine and dandy, so much so that you have no hesitation in parting with your cash to invest in some RM crypto backed by gold?
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RMG has absolutely no connection with sterling. You say you trust the RM at the moment. So you accept that £1bn of gold bullion has been legally earmarked for RMG. I presume that by "on the horizon" you mean Brexit. I think the scenario where the RM tear up these legal documents so as to save the UK government £1bn are not on the Brexit horizon. Of course it is possible that a Henry VIII scenario will recur at some stage but, frankly, life is too short to worry about such contingencies.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
RMG has absolutely no connection with sterling.
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Brexit, Scottish Independence, war in Yemen, Russia, China, Syria, immigration, QE, racism, rise of facism, Italy, US tariffs etc...etc...
There is an infinite amount of continuously fluid events that may impact directly or indirectly for good or bad, that as you say, life is too short to 'worry' about.

But who is worrying?

Life is also too short not to inform yourself of those events occuring that may be more likely to impact significantly on one's standard of living than others. Things like the events I listed above could be those events. Presumably others think so too, thats why they make news headlines for instance.

Apparently my interest in geopolitics, and international financial affairs and how they may impact on my standard of living has given rise to you of some sort of 'Shortie Syndrome'. Its cute, but you base it on spoofery, exaggeration and misrepresentation. You have been called out plenty of times by other posters for distorting comments to suit your own narrative.

Getting back to RM crypto, I think I will stay away from it. Not because I dont think they cant be trusted, but because it has the whiff of gimmickery about it. And in that regard they have plenty of form, dont they?
 
MrEarl said:
Do they actually have a tangible value that separates them from the majority of other cryptocurrencies and give a level of comfort to those who have firmly believed that all cryptos are worthless ?
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I see these Cryptos as simply digitizing gold but in a way I wouldn't consider decentralized per se. However what makes them different to a Gold ETF is the way it can be traded and stored. It allows you to trade gold without having to use FIAT assuming you have Cryptos to trade in the first place. You can effectively carry huge quantities of gold in your pocket (or in your head) if you wish anywhere you go. With a Gold ETF you are effectively dependent on the country they are operated in to cash out your FIAT. With Gold Cryptos you could convert them to any other crypto (ie- BTC or ETH) and then cash it out wherever you wish.

All the above is assuming thought that the Gold Crypto is solid organization and not a scam but that's another discussion.

So all in all if I was very bullish on Gold and wanted to buy some I would much prefer buy it in the form of a Gold Crypto. In any case they are much lighter to carry around! :D:D:D
 
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