are FG/Labour all washed up at next election because of water fiasco???

N

NOAH

Registered User
Messages
823
I read recently that the new water company was set up by this coalition government using a guillotine motion ie no debate. Then it appears the MD was just appointed by Phil Hogan!! And on the saga goes.

Now it looks as if they are making up rules on the fly ie call out charges, fixing leaks(passing the buck). Charging for water that is undrinkable. Another one I heard today is that a home owner is responsible for the sewer pipe until it reaches the main in the road!!! So if that pipe was badly installed in the first place ie engineers often have the bright idea to turn the pipe for a sideways feed as opposed to a top feed, this can cause lots of problems in the future, is it morally or ethically ok to lump charges on home owner who had no say on the initial work??

In other words how can a company be set up in such a fashion? Is there any way of flagging this to the EU?

And if I allow the meter to be sited on my land ie away from the stop cock will that make the water company responsible for all the pipe up to the meter?

Finally is this the worst ever attempt by an inept government to squeeze every last cent from a placid electorate?

If I have misunderstood how this company was set up can someone enlighten me please?
 
blah blah blah, more anti government ranting Noah. It's all very predictable. I am surprised that you expect the state to be responsible for shoddy building work on private property though! How far would you like to see this extended? Should the state be held liable for poor wiring in the house as well?
 
you either have your own private water supply or you live in another country. The main sewer runs down the middle of the road in most installations, the linking pipe to each property runs under road to each property the shoddy work was done by council . Why should the owner be responsible for work done outside their boundary.

Anyway after reading today's papers its highly unlikely irish water will survive for much longer. A call out fee of €282 euro, they are having a laugh.
 
And to answer the question in your thread title (which isn't touched on at all in your actual post) - no FG/Labour aren't washed up in the next election because there is no palatable alternative voting option for many people.
 
NOAH said:
Now it looks as if they are making up rules on the fly ie call out charges, fixing leaks(passing the buck).
Click to expand...

No change there. It has always been the householder's responsibility to maintain the water infrastructure on their property.

NOAH said:
Another one I heard today is that a home owner is responsible for the sewer pipe until it reaches the main in the road!!! So if that pipe was badly installed in the first place...
Click to expand...

That has also always been the case.

For both the above, it seems as if you expect the tax payer to subsidise your poor choices or misfortune. Should the tax payer also pay up if your car breaks down? As the home owner, it's your property, why should the rest of us subsidise problems with it?

When buying a property, it's your responsibility to inform yourself of any potential issues. Then armed with this information, you can make a decision on whether to go ahead or walk away.
 
the SF implosion has the happy dual effect of burying them and a temporary respite from water charges. if you had any wonders about the calibre of the water protesters they were answered by the radio soundbytes from the high court yesterday - the usual brainless crap.

I'm not saying there arent valid points to be made, but i wouldnt fancy anyones chances of getting them out of that 'crew'.
 
Why have irish water imposed a call out charge if the fault is on the householders property? The householder can get who they like.

The idea now is that the householder has to dig up the road and people are missing this point.

I am afraid that a lot of people are in for a shock if they allow irish water to continue in the way it is currently being rolled out.

What we have is a system that is totally unsuitable for what is required ie delivery of water to and from a premises, such service will be metered and charged appropriately. The system at the moment looses 40% due to leaks but this was never addressed and the consumer will now have to foot the bill even though payment was taken from taxes for many years. This is like buying a car with an old engine and then having to pay for a new engine to be installed.

And I will lay money that FG and Labour will be wiped out at next election.
 
NOAH said:
Why have irish water imposed a call out charge if the fault is on the householders property? The householder can get who they like.
Click to expand...

Exactly, they absolutely can get who they like to fix leaks on their property. Irish water have staff with expertise in this area, and are just offering a service. No one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to choose them.

NOAH said:
The idea now is that the householder has to dig up the road and people are missing this point.
Click to expand...

Are you being serious here? Surely you know the householder is not allowed dig up the road??? The issue here is leaks on your property!
 
I think today answered my query, FG/Lab are up the river without a paddle.
 
Betsy Og said:
the SF implosion has the happy dual effect of burying them and a temporary respite from water charges.
Click to expand...
SF has "imploded" to a 4% increase over the main government party. Why did you think SF supporters would be upset by learning that the Northern branch behaved just like their priests when they had no problem with that same branch killing, torturing, kidnapping, robbing, extorting etc.?
 

Depressing innit. Like you I, personally, was wondering what the fuss was about when the story started. The kangaroo court stuff didnt surprise me in the least. The meejah did seem to think it would affect SF down South though, pressure on Gerry, unprecedented grumbling within the party, Mary Lou being damaged, yadda yadda. But sure if you're daft enough to vote for them then theres no point trying to rationalise it.

On the water charges, it strikes me that most of the arguments had more validity when applied to the property tax.


  1. Much of the core sentiment seems to be "enough is enough" - and yes we've borne plenty of pain so that argument should be heard.
  2. "We're paying for it already in taxes" - same could be said for any service.
It does frustrate me that people refuse to believe that it costs millions to deliver safe, clean water, and someone has to pay it. The idea of user pays is a sound one - we cut consumption & waste when there is a cost associated. Who would bother fixing, or even reporting, a leak if it makes no odds to them?

It borders on the tragic how badly this has gone with talk of bonuses, massive waste in Irish Water, widespread confusion and 'making it up as you go along'.

I'd much prefer have had water charges in and be looking at protests about the property tax.
 
NOAH said:
Finally is this the worst ever attempt by an inept government to squeeze every last cent from a placid electorate?QUOTE]

It seems to be a massive blunder.

They gave Big Phil a big promotion out of it.
Click to expand...
 
Betsy Og said:
I'd much prefer have had water charges in and be looking at protests about the property tax.
Click to expand...

+1

Now it seems we are to have a referendum on privatising Irish Water. Well I will certainly vote for that.

40% leaks
bonus culture
€100 million on consultants
2,300 surplus staff
no clarity on expected costs

The private sector could hardly be worse.
 

The only thing worse than a state monopoly is a private sector one. If they then interact with the state it's even worse.
 
NOAH said:
I think this article sums it up and the name of the author adds a little extra!!

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...-finally-stand-up-to-be-counted-30701456.html
Click to expand...
That is just awful, awful, awful pseudo intellectual self important know-it-all drivel. I could pick it apart line by line but I quote just one of the less offensive paragraphs: The reason why alcohol (and petrol) have been spared is 100% due to our land border with the UK. If I wrote a letter to the Indo claiming the government was using a cheap booze policy to anaesthetise the populace it wouldn't be read past the first paragraph, before the Editor dumped it in the bin scowling "what nutters we do have".
 
Just in case some are forgetting the title of this thread is:- are FG/Labour all washed up at next election because of water fiasco???

The answer of course, is yes. Many of the electorate will never forgive Fianna Fáil and the same people are being alienated by Fine Gael and Labour more and more each day.

Labour have already hit an all-time low and more to the point lower than they think. Remember the Local Elections where voters just ignored them. The Labour party is already out of the equation for the next general election.

Fine Gael fronted by people who have as much in common with ordinary people as I have with Wayne Rooney (nil, for those who have not copped on) are heading down the charts and fast. They are being saved some bit by the non existence of a decent satire tv programme like Hall's Pictorial Weekly (remember Richie Ruin, Minister for Hardship, Honest Jack etc). Traditionally, Fine Gael always have had the ability to knowingly shoot themselves in the foot. Fine Gael being ruled by their European bosses will again underachieve.

Fianna Fáil have a leader that (for the first time) will never become Taoiseach. Mind you he will probably be richer than any Taoiseach when he decides to resign or is ousted.

Then we have Sinn Féin, still an unknown quantity and have gained popularity probably from those who use their votes as protest. There may be a split down the line.

Whatever way we look at what will happen at the next general election there is trouble ahead for the political party politicians. The way is being cleared for more Independents and Protest politicians.
 
The next general election is a contest between Sinn Fein and Fine Gael.

This reflects a very old division that has existed in Irish society since Daniel O Connell died and the famine obliterated the society he lived in. Since then irish politics have been divided between the Fenians (Sinn Fein) and the Irish Party (Fine Gael). Those that own and those that don't.

All the protesters and left voters will be swept up by Sinn Fein. The Sinn Fein party offers structure and longevity to these voters, Ming and Mattie McGrath are temporary phenomena.

In the face of this and in the interests of continuity with state policies over the last 55 years, (investment in education, an open economy, attracting foreign investment) Fine gael offers the only alternative.

Unless there is a significant revival in FF, I predict some of them will be lead back to SF by Eamon O Cuiv and the rest support an FG lead government under Mary Hanafin.

There may be a delay in this scenario, it may not come to pass until the election after next. in the meantime Mick Wallace for Taoiseach indeed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register