Are domestic solar panels financially beneficial - or just idealogical?

Made some enquires about getting them installed on my house. Quoted 15k or thereabouts but no grant since it's a new build which is additionally extortionate since I suspect grants are automatically priced in. I don't have an electric car nor ever plan to get one.
I can't honestly make sense of how this kind of setup can be of any financial benefit since the system I've been quoted for feeds back into the grid at wholesale rates, which the electricity company very kindly sells back to me at retail plus VAT and standing charges etc.

Can this kind of setup every truly be a good deal for the consumer or is it more an idealogical notion that you're doing something to help with the energy crisis etc? Everyone who's got it in seems to rave about how much they're saving, while conveniently forgetting the huge outlay from the get-go and unless I'm mistaken, the fact that you don't seem to be able to store any excess electricity going forward.
Is the math not mathing or am I missing something obvious?

Windsor23 said:

Is the math not mathing

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What math?
You'd need to characterise your usage patterns in order to work out the payback time on a particular installation.
There are no such details in your post.

Windsor23 said:

the fact that you don't seem to be able to store any excess electricity going forward.

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You can with a battery option.

ClubMan said:

You'd need to characterise your usage patterns in order to work out the payback time on a particular installation.
There are no such details in your post.

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It's providing energy to the grid only for them to sell it back to you at a higher price bit that baffles me.

Windsor23 said:

It's providing energy to the grid only for them to sell it back to you at a higher price bit that baffles me.

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Is that necessarily the case?
Again, no "math".
And can't this be avoided by using a battery?

Hello,

What exactly were you offered for €15,000, please ?

That sounds like a very large system, or someone trying to rip you off...

Evolve ECO Solutions installed my system, less than two years ago. I found them competitive, had a good reputation and they were subsequently good to deal with in my own experience, so I would happily recommend them.

Look at their website and you'll see a price of €8,800 (if you can't get a grant), for a basic 14 panel system, along with a couple of other indicative prices for other basic packages, or you can also request a custom quote:



You'll also see that they offer batteries, starting at €1800. We installed a battery as part of our installation, as it made sense for our requirements, but it may not be the right option for everyone.

There's no point in debating the value for money, or how long it may take for you to breakeven, or turn a profit, without you first providing some details.

You really need to:
- get a few reliable quotes,
- get the installers to give you an idea of average power generation from your house (location, direction it faces etc. all play a part)
- then look at your annual usage (both how much power you consume and when you consume it)
- consider if a battery or two may be needed
- also consider if you want to get your water heated by the system
- then start considering the cost versus return etc.

Any decent installer will help you with all of the above, at no cost, as part of their initial free consultation process.

Personally, I do recommend investing in solar energy, for most peoples homes and I've no vested interest here, I'm just a satisfied customer / user.

You use solar energy if it is available when you turn things on. It is only the excess that is exported to the grid. If you could have enough battery power you could be independant of the grid for a good 6 mths of the year. We got it with the threat of Putin cutting off gasline to Europe and general threat to world energy. Now we have electric car, I am happy never to enter a petrol station again and know I am doing my bit to reduce airpollution.

Windsor23 said:

quoted for feeds back into the grid at wholesale rates

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Just use what you generate yourself.

It is basic maths.

Your initial outlay compared to your annual savings.

Get your initial outlay as low as possible i.e shop around. Get the right system based on your usage patterns and watch the savings. You will save a lot and its generally a great investment compared to alternative options for use of funds.

Is must be a big enough system for 15k. The grants are build into the price... I have heard several times than non SEAI registered installers (proper sparks) are about the same price or can be cheaper.

My PV income for 2024:

• Value of the daytime units that I consumed from my PV panels: €275
• Value of the units sold to my energy supplier: €550
• Profit that I realised from charging my battery at night rate and consuming the stored units during day time: €225

Gain for 2024 = €1,050

The cost of my system (after grant) was €9,000. So the return on my investment (ignoring depreciation) is about 11.67%.

System pays for itself after 9 years and has an estimated lifetime of over 20 years.

Of course the more expensive that grid electricity becomes, the better my return will be. So come back to me in a decade or longer.

There's also the fact that my kids approve - and so does Greta Thunberg!

And if you were chaeging an ev on those cheap night rates youd save a lot of petrol or diesel. Of course thats against the cost of the ev. But if you need a new car anyway....

I think the type of household you have and your age obviously has a lot to do with return. My daughter is at home most days and 3 kids in house with eldest nearing teenage years so obviously young family and they would really benefit from solar panels. Washer/dryer is going constantly and showers etc for sports/beach mad kids, use oven most days and electric hob. She did get a few quotes last year but didn't go ahead for various reasons. It would be well worth it for them, big bills even with best provider. They are also in an area that sees regular power cuts with the least puff of wind so the changeover switch plus battery would be useful to them too.

I on the other hand live alone with quite reasonable bills and it's a gamble if I will be around long enough for the pay off! I don't intend getting an EV either so that avenue of savings is cut off too. Don't get power cuts luckily either, added to that I have a lot of velux windows in the way and my roof doesn't even quite face the best way for it.

With the right quote and system and the right household setup I think they are definitely worth it with the added benefit of good for environment. There is a very active FB solar Ireland page that I spent a lot of time on researching it all and getting advice but left eventually as definitely not going ahead.

In fact the best thing I could do now would be pay for her panels and probably will!

The ROI *can* be there, but only if you get decent value for money at the installation stage.

Example scenario where it does work out financially:
You call 5 reputable companies, tell them all that you're shopping around, and go with the best quote which is €8,000 for 8 kW of panels (no grant, no battery in this example)
The panels generate ~7,000 kWh per year, saving/earning you €1,610 per annum (majority from exports, since you have a lot of panels and no battery)
You have two names on the electricity bill, so no tax on the first €800 of exports
Buy you pay €210 of tax on the remaining exports
So the ROI is €1,400 per year net of tax
Which is a 17.5% annual return on the €8,000

Of course, that's a rough outline, but you get the general idea.

We have had solar water heating panels with 21 years. They are still going strong and have never given any problems. In the summer there is constant hot water, never an issue with showering, washing up etc. in the winter very little but we have heating on which give us the hot water. I would think that has well paid for itself.

A couple of years ago we got the PV solar panels. They generate a small amount in winter and a large amount in summer. We sell excess to the grid. By watching the monitor we time the dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer to when we are generating ourselves. Never put on the dishwasher until the sun has risen and we have no cold feed to the dishwasher, only hot, so the water is heated by the panels as well.

I would say our tumble dryer is still our biggest electricity user but by being clever we can get free to us loads in. I hope the system will still be flying in 20 years and will have well paid for itself.

I do think for solar you need to have the cash saved to invest in it, which for parents with small kids can be hard to put aside, there are so many other things they can use their savings on.

Your bill issue date is: 28 Jul 23 Your bill amount is: EUR 325.10
Your bill issue date is: 29 Jul 24 Your bill amount is: EUR 197.64
Your bill issue date is: 1 Aug 25 Your bill amount is: EUR 259.54 credit.
Solar panels connected 12/07/24.
Cost €11,100 after grant.
18 panels with battery.

What size battery and what orientation and wattage are panels?

I cant really decipher any meaningful info from your post, maybe its just me.

What point are you trying to illustrate, if you dont mind me asking.
Tks

From my research, the most efficient use seems to be where people are happy to time usage and load shift and invest in batteries, etc. If you're a set it and leave it person it may not have the same ROI. I'm happy to spend the little bit of time required so we plan to invest this year. We very luckily have the cash earning v little interest so it makes sense for us, plus our usage patterns.

What size battery and what orientation and wattage are panels?

I cant really decipher any meaningful info from your post, maybe its just me.

What point are you trying to illustrate, if you dont mind me asking.

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My point is a different of €584 between July's bill 2023 and July's bill 2025 to the plus side.
5 KWh Battery.
South facing.
18 × 435W Jinko Solar Tiger Neo Satin.
A saving of €1,780 since the panels were installed.
Not including money saved by not using oil to heat water.