Architect costings - out of whack?

DeeKie

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I feel a bit at sea so would like someone else to sense check these costings? I like the work of the architects but hadn’t thought such a big chunk of our budget would go to them. Also the RUAI contract seems designed to let them change price very easily.

We are in Dublin.

Here we go!



Our fees are based on 11% of an estimated ex vat budget of €300,000 for renovation / extension, as discussed, we can adjust and fix this once we get a full handle on cost. I have attached the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland Agreement between Client and Architect for Domestic Work (2014 edition) for reference.
House Renovation and Extension: Total Fee: €33,000*excl VAT (€40,590 incl Vat @23%) Breakdown of the Stages are as follows:


Initial Design
Design development and lodging of planning application (if required) Detail Design/ Tender
Construction
1-Initial Design 15% €4,950 ex vat Included in the fee is:
-survey of the house,
-initial layouts/options for discussion
-development of design with yourselves.

2-Design Development 30% €9,900 ex vat Included in the fee is:
-further development of design with yourselves.
-review of cost
-produce further drawings to illustrate design.
-further develop design to incorporate statutory requirement.
-Preparation of planning drawings, forms, site and newspaper notices. (if required) -lodge planning application with the Council. (if required)

3- Detail Design/ Tender 25% €8,250 ex Vat -engage/ develop the detail design with a structural Engineer
-prepare full Tender Documents and specifications -assist in drawing up a list of contractors for tender -issue tender documents to QS/ Contractors
4- Construction 30% €9,900 ex vat
-review returned tender and review costs/ details with QS/ Contractor
-draw up RIAI contract between you and the Contractor
-regular site visits/ meeting with both yourselves and the contractor to ensure the project is progressing as per the design/planning documents
-assist you both with any design or technical issues you may have
-issue RIAI Certs of payment
-issue an RIAI cert of compliance with planning permission/ building Control on completion of the project.

The above excludes the following expenses: -Printing costs (€200 approx.)
-OS Maps
-Planning fees and contributions
-Planning adverts -Engineer’s fees
-QS
-PSDP
-Assigned Assessor -Council Levy's
If the above fee is acceptable, we recommend signing a RIAI ‘Agreement between Client and Architect for Domestic Work’ which we can review together when we sit down nex.

Health and Safety: PSDP €1150 ex Vat
 
Way too much. they're charging you €15k to get the plans to submission for planning permission. They probably don't really want your business but decided to throw the price out there and if you agree to it, they'll do it. Find an architect that specialises in home extensions. there are plenty of them.

And make sure you have a QS involved from an early stage. Prices are nuts at the moment, changing all the time and you need an architect who uses a QS to price jobs for them as an architect uses guidelines.
 
Way too much. they're charging you €15k to get the plans to submission for planning permission. They probably don't really want your business but decided to throw the price out there and if you agree to it, they'll do it. Find an architect that specialises in home extensions. there are plenty of them.

And make sure you have a QS involved from an early stage. Prices are nuts at the moment, changing all the time and you need an architect who uses a QS to price jobs for them as an architect uses guidelines.

@Steven Barrett, the design phase is on the high end, but the other aspects seem equitable to current market pricing. I engaged multiple architects recently, some didn't respond, some didn't do work for less than 300k. I found architects through recommendations and also from planning permission submitted by architects for houses in my estate.

The rough breakdown I got was 30k ex vat, split as 10k design, 10k tender, 10k construction.

In the end I went with an engineer, as my design was very simple and that is going to cost about 30k inc vat.
 
It seems like 1 and 2 overlap,

[Dublinbay12 is sounds like you contacted architects but you didn’t engage any. ]

Am I expected to haggle or request a discount? Is there a ‘usual’ discount? If so does anyone know what it is.
 
It seems like 1 and 2 overlap,

[Dublinbay12 is sounds like you contacted architects but you didn’t engage any. ]

Am I expected to haggle or request a discount? Is there a ‘usual’ discount? If so does anyone know what it is.

I engaged Architects to get prices, it is easy to pick an architect based on their pictures, getting prices is trickier!

What I found from my research is that it is a 3 part process consisting of design, tender, and construction management. The design phase is usually a fixed cost, and the second two parts are a percentage of the construction costs (10-15%). In your case the design fee seems very expensive but the tender and construction seem like a good deal given they are a fixed price.

Do you know what you actually want an architect to design for you? If it is simple, I would be asking just for option 1 with an additional fee for submitting planning. Personally I paid 8k excl vat for design and planning.
 
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