Laya Alert! Laya may automatically renew you on a different policy

[SlugBreath]

Like a lot of people I switched over to Laya Healthcare based on value and benefits last year. I opted for their Healthwise Plus (no excess) at €1054 net.

Fast forward one year and my renewal arrives this week with a renewal price of €1100. I can handle that. I take out last years renewal to compare the price and I notice that on my renewal the title of my scheme is now called Essential Connect. Is this the same scheme with a different name I wonder?

I call Laya and I am told that it is a completely different scheme with not as many benefits as my original Healthwise Plus (no excess). I ask why was I changed to this scheme and I am told that the Healthwise Plus has been withdrawn. This new Essential Plus scheme has been offered to me on renewal based on price rather than benefits!

I now lose the "no excess." I lose Blackrock Clinic. I cannot get a private room in a public hospital.

This was not pointed out to me in my renewal correspondence, I had to find this out myself by reading a number of booklets that were were enclosed..

I ask is there a comparable product to the original Healthwise plus and I am told that there is but it costs circa €1500. Why was I not offered this?

It appears I was offered a lesser product on renewal based on the assumption that I was purchasing on price rather than benefits or Laya knew that if they offered me a comparable product to Healthwise Plus at €1500 I would be on the phone to another provider.

There is also the fact that if I had not noticed the difference and paid my renewal, thinking it was the same product, I would have been on a lesser value product. If I then wished to move to a different provider next year I could only take out a similar plan and not a better plan.

I complain about this and state over the phone that there is a bit of trickery going on here. I am then offered a product called Flexi 125 Explore that is in fact a better product than the Essential Connect that I have been offered on renewal, similar to my original Healthwise Plus (no Excess) and similar price of €1100.

Why was I not offered this on renewal?

Anyone any thoughts on what Laya Healthcare are up to?

 

[Monbretia]

Copied from another thread


My father's 'renewal' turned up this year, up about 100 or so on last year so I thought not too bad until a poster on here advised that a lot of the 'renewals' are not actually renewals of existing policy but totally different policy. Sure enough when I rang Laya it turned you he had been on a different plan previous year but they had sent out this suggestion based on what they decided he was likely to pay, very underhand stuff I thought, I could easily have just thought 100 increase is grand and paid it assuming it was same level of cover to previous year and it certainly wasn't.


Yes I know we should all read the small print etc but renewal implies you are renewing what you already had but of course they don't actually use the word renewal anywhere on the letter.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Hi Monbretia

I was not aware of this issue.

Are you saying that your father had Plan X. But the "renewal" letter had Plan Y instead, which was a different plan, presumably worse value?

Can you give the names of the plans so we can compare them.

How common is this?

Brendan

 

[Mexicola]

As guilty of doing underhanded things as insurers are, I don't feel that this is one of them.

Insurers may retire products if they wish, if they do so they offer another product to consumers often based on price and trends of movement between plans. There is process set out by insurers when a customer is moving from a retired product to a suggested product on renewal.

1. The consumer receives a renewal letter advising that the plan is no longer available and has been retired.
2. The consumer receives a comparison document outlining the differences between the proposed plan and retired plan.
3. The consumer receives a rules booklet for the proposed plan.

As well as the above the renewal letters issued advises that the benefits of the policy is enclosed and that the level of cover is changing. Consumers are also advised that they can select another plan if they feel the proposed plan does not meet their needs.

 

[Monbretia]

I have found some of the relevant documentation as I had filed away and thrown away some I felt I no longer needed.

Mexicola - you are partially right the letter does say 'some schemes will no longer be available and you will now renew on a different level of cover which we believe offers better value'. You don't need to take any action, as your policy will automatically renew with the schemes shown on your updated membership certificate.'

It doesn't clearly say the HealthWise Plus he had been on is gone, it has on a second Membership Certificate page the plan Essential Connect and the cost €1,100 which was only slightly more than previous year but there is an excess on this policy which was not on the previous one which was the main reason for choosing previous one.

Yes I know we need to read all the small print etc but for a change as big as this I do think it should at least be clearly outlined in the first paragraph. In all honesty most of my attention was on the second page which had the amount, I think maybe a comparable to previous policy here with that price and then the suggested new policy maybe? It just wouldn't have occurred to me that they would scrap the plan he was on and not offer a similar cover plan but base the new option on a similar price instead. Surely it is the customers decision to make whether or not they want to pay the higher amount to maintain similar cover. They do have plans nearer in cover to what he had been on, more expensive but they are there, I think if you are offering an alternative it should be similar to what you had and of course they can suggest another cheaper less cover alternative too but it should be crystal clear that that is what it is.

 

[Mexicola]

I'd suggest you have a look for all the documents from Laya because it appears you did not receive some of the documents that I did.

I received confirmation my plan had been retired (Healthwise Plus), a suggestion of a new plan with details of how to contact Laya if I did not want the plan, a plan comparison of my old/suggested plan and a rules booklet to review.

 

[Monbretia]

That's all the docs I have left, I dealt with this in early December and only kept what I considered were the relevant docs, there is definitely no mention in my letter of the plan being retired/discontinued or any other reference to the existing plan, just says 'some plans'. They don't suggest a new plan as such, the membership certificate which is like an invoice just shows the new plan and the cost. Anyway it doesn't matter now, I rang them at the time and got the info, made a complaint and the customer advisor I spoke to was not surprised by my comments and agreed that the decision on what price I was likely to pay was not theirs to make, he commented that it was not the first time he had heard the complaint and assured me he would pass it on to the powers that be.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Hi Mexicola

It's interesting that Monbretia and SlugBreath had the same experience.

I renew my policy with Laya by direct debit. Like the other two, I saw that the price was around 10% higher, so felt that was probably around right. I would have no idea what the name of my policy is. It's something I look at once a year. It would never occur to me that they would switch me to a policy with different cover.

I would expect Laya to say in their letter in clear and big print "We are no longer offering the Healthwise Plus policy which you currently have, so your policy will not be renewed. Here are some options you may wish to consider
...

...
...
Please fill in the attached form if you wish to continue insurance with us. "

There is no way that they should switch to another , lesser policy, and take payment by direct debit.

It seems that you got all this, but the others didn't or don't remember getting it. I still don't think that they should take out a direct debit. Mind you, if they don't, then the customer might complain that they had not been notified.

If I remember correctly, my renewal letter from Laya had about 4 or 5 different letters or brochures. I read them quickly and threw out the ones which were not relevant. I have the same approach to many suppliers who bombard me with paper.

Brendan

 

[Mexicola]

From memory Laya's letter states something like "You should refer to the documents enclosed with this letter for a rules booklet and a comparison which show the benefits of the new scheme on your policy. As your level of cover is changing, if you require help or if you feel that the proposed plan does not meet your needs, contact us on ...."

When I read the letters I noticed pretty quickly that I had been offered a change of plan. I can see how people may not notice the change or don't read the letters but from an insurers pov, if they send out letters advising of a change of plan/cover and a comparison table they effectively cover themselves from any punishment because it's up to the consumer to read these documents.

 

[Monbretia]

I think that's just it, they cover themselves by mentioning it. I would have preferred something like Brendan's suggestion, big bold writing and making it very clear I was not being offered the same cover and an offer of some alternative similar and other options if they wanted.

I am normally very good for reading everything I get in detail but this slipped by me on initial reading as I suppose I was quickly reading the letter and it wasn't mentioned in first paragraph which was just all about health insurance costs have increased etc etc and I was concentrating more on the actual page with the costs etc. Lesson learned!

 

[DrMoriarty]

Anyone any thoughts on what Laya Healthcare are up to?

In a nutshell, the same kind of sharp practice as pretty much any health/life/fire/motor insurer I have ever dealt with (and I've been with them all, bar Quinn, at some stage). You really would want to count your fingers after shaking hands with these guys.

As guilty of doing underhanded things as insurers are, I don't feel that this is not one of them.

And your double-negative trickery will fool no-one, Mexicola!

Thanks to SlugBreath for posting this here; hopefully others will be alerted in time.

 

[Bronco Lane]

2. The consumer receives a comparison document outlining the differences between the proposed plan and retired plan.

This happened to me as well. I can absolutely guarantee you that there was no comparison document between the old plan and the new plan. I still have all my original documentation and checked it today.

 

[Mexicola]

Really? that is strange. I got a 10 page booklet with plan comparisons included with my renewal documents.

 

[Woodie]

In my experience it is not just Laya but others also. It appears as long as they remain within the Levels 1 2 3 etc. the terms and benefits can alter radically. In my experience my policy for exactly the same package doubled in price in one year but was offered a lesser package, more excess etc., for more money than I paid the previous year.
The system is unnecessarily complex, the policies talk about specific policy being available online but refer to broken links, they mention exclusion of specific procedures but you need a medical degree to work it out. I'm not sure how to fix it but it is worse than mobile phone subscriptions, surely something can be done to simplify the system, I thought competition was suppose to help the consumer, all it seems to do is make it more complex and more expensive.

 

[sadie]

I got a Renewal letter from Laya also. Like previous poster, they offered me a different policy to the previous one, there was no comparison document. There may have been the usual leaflet about whatever plan they were offering me, but it wasn't designed to be a 'comparison' document.
I rang HIA regarding rules about renewals. Basically, if you pay in direct debit instalments, your policy will renew automatically if you do nothing. You have 10 days from the date of renewal to change your mind. The first direct debit payment is taken as 'confirmation' of the contract and henceforth you are liable to pay the whole annual contract. You have to write or email, or ring them and get them to email you to confirm the cancellation of the direct debit if you want to change the policy before renewal date.
The system is designed in favour of the health insurers. The consumer has to take all the actions to find information and decide for themselves, otherwise they will decide for you and just implement the new payments.
Edited to add: I should include Laya did ring me before Renewal date to ask me about the policy.

 

[Bronco Lane]

Really? that is strange. I got a 10 page booklet with plan comparisons included with my renewal documents.

You are changing what you originally said. You are now talking about receiving a "booklet" with plan comparisons. If a company is going to change plans on a customer, the company should send a comparison page not a booklet. This page should show the old plan and the new plan side by side. Not any other plans thrown in to confuse matters. This comparison page should be included in the main body of the letter. By all means include a booklet but they should highlight the two plans side by side.

 

[Mexicola]

Sorry if you're confused by my wording but the comparison and booklet are the same thing. It shows the old and new plan side by side.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Had a similar issue with VHI. They changed the name of the plan bit by bit each year slowly changing the plan. The brought back the original plan name with a much higher price point. Probably close to the original benefits. Had to compare these plans anymore. Also plans seem to mention things like standard procedures, but no specific list of procedures that are included or not.

The response I got when querying was that you sign up to a new plan each year. It maybe the same name, but that doesn't mean its the same plan. So you have to shop around and check the plans each year.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Folks

I want to be fair to Laya. Can we be absolutely clear what documentation you received.

I got three relevant documents in December

1) A personalised cover letter with no details. Just saying that I had the option of Keeping my current level of cover or reducing it to reduce my premiums.
2) A personalised membership Certificate with my name and details which tells me the name of the product Flex 500 Explore and the price and the renewal date
3) A generic Flex 500 Explore Benefits Table.

As they are renewing the same policy as last year, the issue in this thread does not arise.

But could someone who has received the discontinued policy notice, tell us exactly what they received.

Brendan

 

[Monbretia]

I can't confirm exactly what I got as I was renewing 3 different policies all separate so got a load of stuff and I only kept the cover letter and page with plan and amount and one or two relevant booklets. I definitely do not recall seeing any page showing a comparison between what I was on and what I was being offered, there was only one of the policies that happened with so I think I would have noticed extra page like that with one of them and it makes no mention in the cover letter of their being a comparison like that enclosed. Most of the booklets I got were just duplicated in each letter.