Alcohol promotions - what is the legal position

C

Complainer

Registered User
Messages
4,949
Just came across this advert;

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=131941266881821

1. Hot dancers
2. Beer Bongs
3. 5 Shots for €10
4. Pitchers of beer/cocktails for €10
5.Vodka Super Soakers
6. AMERICAN PIE MARATHON
7. 3 Jagerbombs for €10


The Best Student night.. just got BETTER!!!


Drinks Promotions......
€3, Shots, Bottles and Alco Pops
€4, Vodka and Dash
€5, Cocktails
€10, 3 Jaeger Bombs
€10, 5 shots
€10, Pitchers of beer/cocktails
€10, Double Vodka and Red Bull
Click to expand...

Ignoring the taste issue, are there legal issues around these types of low price drink promotions?
 
Yes, there should be.

The publicans who recently didn't go to jail for manslaughter highlights the issues. Personally I think those barmen were responsible, even if their behaviour is standard. They sold a guy half a bottle of vodka wasn't it?, to a man who was already drunk. (8 to 10 shots sold, in a pint glass.. both 8 and 10 shots were reported,.. a full bottle is approx 21 to 22 shots, 35ml each I think)


The point is that it's an offence to sell to a drunk person, and it's also an offence to be drunk in public isn't it?


The low prices on drink promotions could be seen as incentivising people to drink too much... but the recent case seems to remove responsibility from the barmen. In that case the barmen did wonder if they should go ahead, so they asked the Manager, who approved the sale of 8 to 10 shots, in a single glass, to a guy whose stated intention was to drink them more quickly than another person would drink a pint of beer. I think the charge of manslaughter should have held up, although I agree that that would be very harse on the barmen. But a man is dead... so the situation was very serious.

Would the charge of manslaughter have stood if they allowed him to drink a pint of bleach, which they supplied, as a bet?
 
once your over 18 it should be your responsibility, all this health and saftey and what you can and carnt do is mad.

having said this any company selling a product has a duty of care to there customers ie not leaving them in any danger to the customer or others.
 
NorfBank said:
Happy hours are banned but if the promotion is for the whole of your trading day then I think it's ok. I presume Tramco opens at 2230 on a Friday?
Click to expand...
I doubt it - from reading a couple of online reviews, it seems to be open but largely empty in the evenings, until the post-pub crowd come in from 11 onwards.

Who would be the relevant regulator for this?
 
JoeBallantin said:
Would the charge of manslaughter have stood if they allowed him to drink a pint of bleach, which they supplied, as a bet?
Click to expand...

The intended purpose of bleach is not for drinking. I am sure had they supplied him a pint of bleach the charge would have stood.

I dont see it was their responsibility, people have to take personal responsbility for their actions. If the manslaughter charge had stood barmen would not be able to do their job without fear of being charged with someones death, same for waitresses, air hostesses, room service in hotels. The same could be said for shopkeepers who sell tobacco, chemists who dispense paracetmol or doctors who prescribe medicine.

Alcohol promotions are probably irresponsible and I certainly dont like the idea of them, but if alcohol is a legal drug, and sold with the possibility that one can die from overdoing it, then the responsibility for being sensible must be on the person who drinks it.
 
Complainer said:
Do you really think it is their job to sell a pint of mixed spirits in a pint glass?
Click to expand...

What practical difference does it make if they sell the mixed spirits in one glass or sell 8 or 10 shots seperately that the person either consumes one after another or pours into one glass himself to consume?
 
Why are you bothered either way about the promotion? If all pubs charged less I and others might go out more! Would not be enticed by these drinks but paying over €7 for a gin and tonic is mad and so I prefer to have a drink at home.

I would not binge drink because it is cheaper but I might be enticed to go out rather than have a glass of wine at home! €4-5 euro for a glass of wine in a bar when you can get a bottle for the same price so can see why publicans are trying to entice their customers to spend their money by reducing their prices.
 
In terms of legislation, the relevant Acts to look at are the Intoxicating liquer acts 03, 04 and 08. As a previous poster mentioned, "happy hours" are prohibited. The Adverstising Standards authority have guidelines for alcohol advertising, but I presume they are not much use
[broken link removed]

If you beleive this bar is breaking the law, then I presume you need to go to the Gardai. I can't see anyone else enforcing it.
 
fobs said:
Why are you bothered either way about the promotion? If all pubs charged less I and others might go out more! Would not be enticed by these drinks but paying over €7 for a gin and tonic is mad and so I prefer to have a drink at home.
Click to expand...
This particular event and promotion is clearly targetted at young students, who are not generally reknowned for their self control. There is a serious risk of somebody doing serious harm to themselves.

Mpsox said:
In terms of legislation, the relevant Acts to look at are the Intoxicating liquer acts 03, 04 and 08. As a previous poster mentioned, "happy hours" are prohibited.
If you beleive this bar is breaking the law, then I presume you need to go to the Gardai. I can't see anyone else enforcing it.
Click to expand...
Thanks - it looks like this is the relevant section;
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0031/sec0020.html#sec20

Can anyone confirm/deny that the Gardaí are the relevant enforcement body?
 
Aw come on, I know youre username is Complainer but seriously - going to the gardai over "cheap" drink promotions is a bit OCD. For example, €4 for vodka/dash is what it should cost in reality anyway, similar for bottles of Corona etc which are sold for as much as €6 even though they can be gotten for under a euro in off license.
These types of nights were the best nights out back when I in college, to be honest you sound like a bit of a kill joy. It really is getting to nanny state levels when Joe Public is now complaining about stuff like this.
 
truthseeker said:
The intended purpose of bleach is not for drinking. I am sure had they supplied him a pint of bleach the charge would have stood.

I dont see it was their responsibility, people have to take personal responsbility for their actions. If the manslaughter charge had stood barmen would not be able to do their job without fear of being charged with someones death, same for waitresses, air hostesses, room service in hotels. The same could be said for shopkeepers who sell tobacco, chemists who dispense paracetmol or doctors who prescribe medicine.
Click to expand...

When I worked as a barman, 15 years ago, it was stressed to me that selling anything larger than a double could put you in breach of various laws, .. barmen do have a responsibilty not to serve drunk people, and not to sell 40% alcohol, which can kill.. willy nilly.

Selling half a bottle of vodka to a man whose intention is to drink it in one go is criminal in my view.

Barmen should be in fear of being charged with manslaughter, as they sell a poison, and legislation has always existed in this area, .. they cannot just wash their hands of responsibility.

Personally I expected the charge to stand, but that a suspended sentence would be handed down. As it is the judge has made things worse, not better. The manager didn't do his job with due diligence, and a man is dead.. so what was the judge thinking? The dead man had been drinking all day, and was involved in drinking bets... the manager should have stopped serving him, as per the law.


What about the headache tablets? Tesco have a policy of limiting sales.. they don't just willy nilly sell someone ten packs of barbituates. .and watch them go off to kill themselves. Why is this?, why do they take responsibility?


edited to add. freepouring alcohol is also very dodgy, as the exact quantity can't be determined... this applies to free bars, where it doesn't help someone to give them three shots per glass, as they'd be used to less, and may over-drink. The free bar would have to take some responsibility for that, especially if the person was asking for singles or doubles, and was given more.
 
Complainer said:
Do you really think it is their job to sell a pint of mixed spirits in a pint glass?
Click to expand...

I remember from my younger days that if you wanted to buy a Fat Frog the barman would only give you the 3 bottles of alcohol and 2 empty pint glasses and not pour it into a glass for you. So effectively they sold only 3 bottles which you then decided to mix, taking the risk yourself of doing so.
In this court case the barman should not have put the shots into a pint glass he was leaving himself very vulnerable to the manslaughter charge. Selling the 8 shots in separate shot glasses and allowing the gang of lads to do as they want with them would have meant no court case I reckon.
 
Last edited:
JoeBallantin said:
What about the headache tablets? Tesco have a policy of limiting sales.. they don't just willy nilly sell someone ten packs of barbituates. .and watch them go off to kill themselves. Why is this?, why do they take responsibility?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's Tesco policy - I think it's the law

I could be wrong here though
 
JoeBallantin said:
Selling half a bottle of vodka to a man whose intention is to drink it in one go is criminal in my view.
Click to expand...

If an off licence sells someone a bottle of vodka they have no idea whether or not the person is going to drink it in one go or not.

Did they know he was going to drink it in one go? At least one source said both barmen claimed to investigators that they thought the guy was going to share it with friends.

The only point Im making here (and in this particular case the Judge/court seems to agree with me) is that the person undertakes to drink irresponsibly like that of their own free will.

Tesco only changed their policy on paracetmol because of regulations introduced by the Department of Health.

I am aware that laws exist like serving bigger than doubles, not serving drunk people, but those laws are ignored in practically every bar in the country. You are not supposed to be drunk in public, stand outside Harcourt Street Garda Station any weekend night and watch the Guards arrest the scores of drunkards pouring out of Copper Face Jacks and surrounds - I certainly dont see it, nor do I see them in arresting the barmen in those places for serving drunk people.
 
username123 said:
Aw come on, I know youre username is Complainer but seriously - going to the gardai over "cheap" drink promotions is a bit OCD. For example, €4 for vodka/dash is what it should cost in reality anyway, similar for bottles of Corona etc which are sold for as much as €6 even though they can be gotten for under a euro in off license.
These types of nights were the best nights out back when I in college, to be honest you sound like a bit of a kill joy. It really is getting to nanny state levels when Joe Public is now complaining about stuff like this.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, so. I won't bother. I guess there is no possible downside of binge drinking;
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1104/murphyg.html
[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]

truthseeker said:
If an off licence sells someone a bottle of vodka they have no idea whether or not the person is going to drink it in one go or not.
Click to expand...
Theoretically true, but realistically, there is a reasonable expectation that they are not going to drink it in one go. Whereas if you give out a pint of spirits in a pint glass, there is a reasonable expectation that they WILL drink it in one go.
 
Fair enough, so. I won't bother. I guess there is no possible downside of binge drinking;
Click to expand...
Somebody please think of the children ....... The pub is selling selected cheaper drinks than some other pubs. Big deal. It should be encouraged for competition reasons.
 
Complainer said:
Whereas if you give out a pint of spirits in a pint glass, there is a reasonable expectation that they WILL drink it in one go.
Click to expand...

Not according to the source I earlier linked where the barmen claimed they thought the person was going to share it with his friends.

Anyway, even if the person IS going to drink it in one go - how is that the responsibility of anyone else bar the fool who decides to endanger their own health in that way? This is an adult who has decided to do something dangerous. If the barmen didnt serve him the booze he could have gone to an off licence, a supermarket, even a spar shop and gotten more alcohol and poured it down his throat in whatever manner he chose.

Course there is a downside to binge drinking, but making barmen responsible for manslaughter isnt the way to fix it. Educating people on the dangers of alcohol, on the notion of personal responsibility and changing the binge drinking culture in this country is the correct way to stop these dreadful deaths from happening.

You cannot legislate for every downright stupid action that a supposedly responsible adult will take - nor should a state have to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top