albuferia

not sure if this posting belongs here - just back from Albuferia Thursday last. The day after England lost in Euro 2004, there was a 'atmospheric personality' change in the place! The thugs, low life, coarse and dreadful people left the area. The tense atmosphere was palpable, expecially in the evenings on the 'strip' in Montochoro leading up to that particular match! that being said we never came across any trouble, though we did leave 2 restaurants due to the coarseness, and ignorance I suppose, of overheard conversations. Other English families were embarrassed by their 'fans' behaviour.

When Portugal beat Holland on Wednesday, the excitment reminded us of the Jack Charlton mad summer of Italia 90. It was wonderful, but what was most special that in the madness of the hooting cars were two open trucks with the Dutch fans waving their flags, celebrating their participation and obviously enjoying themselves after graciously accepting defeat. We then spotted 4 English girls, all wearing white tee-shirts, the front saying 'we were robbed' and the back saying 'sol cambell'

In the 'fairplay' competition Holland 10 England 0

Really looking forward to tonight, portugal tee-shirts will be worn, Sangria ingredients are ready, we're rooting for Portugal.

Re: Stutgart 1988

I can well remember the night before that fateful day in Germany 16 years ago. At one point some short haired English gentlemen entered the bistro in which we were sitting, and.. well….broke it. The owner was sitting with us at the time, he simply flipped the table on it side and we all cowered behind it. The demolition of his business took no more than two minutes. In a scene reminiscent of the Wild West Movies chairs were thrown over the bar, the mirror was the first to go then the windows. The police arrived after about three minutes to find a scene of destruction, the culprits well gone (in more ways than one)


This theme continued until the match, afterwards it was carnage, post- apocalyptic anarchy from the defeated team’s fans. We couldn’t savour the victory as we had to leave the city immediately for safety reasons. Eventually we stayed in a campsite about an hour away, the site was mainly populated with English families who were, to say the least, mortified. Bad enough they lost the game, that, they said they would get over, but witnessing the hoards of thugs parading in their colours made their stomachs turn. I felt so sorry for these decent English folks with their kids.

One kid said to me, do others think all English are like them? I declined to answer

English thugs

Imagine what these guys are like when you put them in a uniform and give them a gun.

Re: English thugs

Ah yes, Anglophobia alive and well in post Celtic Tiger Ireland !

Its a real shame that Irish people aren't proud enough of their own achievements and their own country, and that they still feel the need to take low blows at the English.

It really makes me uncomfortable to hear these racist rants.

do others think all English are like them? I declined to answer

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Why decline to answer ? The answer is no: most decent open minded people recognise that football thugs are a small minority in the UK (and in other countries such as Holland).

It's a bit like an Irish person after, some IRA murdering spree, asking a foreigner do others think that we are all like them? I would hope the foreigner would say no.

Re: English thugs (not)

I, too, am back from Albuferia about a week now and saw no trouble. Most, if not all, the English people I met were decent folks and I thought they brought a great bit of life to the tournment. I have seen a lot more thugs at Ireland matches especially the last one in Basel. The Portuguese were very happy to have them.

Re: English thugs

It really makes me uncomfortable to hear these racist rants.

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Iknow this is kind of off the initial topic (and this is not a dig at you N0elC) but would people consider xenophobia racism

I myself am uncertain and that is why I ask

Sometimes I think it is, other not

Re: English thugs

> Iknow this is kind of off the initial topic (and this is not a dig at you N0elC) but would people consider xenophobia racism

Xenophobia is racism if it is expressed by somebody who is of a different race to the people who s/he directs it at. Otherwise it's something else like nationalistic or ethnic prejudice etc. Note the dictionary definition of xenophobia which denotes no merely (undue) FEAR but also contempt or hatred:

dictionary.reference.com/...xenophobia

Racism

Xenophobia is racism if it is expressed by somebody who is of a different race

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That's baloney Blank. You might as well say that not liking somebody's music is racist if the person is of a different race.

Racism

> That's baloney Blank.

It's not. Read the dictionary definition of the word and you'll find that it's not simply a case of disliking foreigners or their traits.

...

wow there NoelC, I'm gonna have to pull you up on yet another of your jumping to conclusions that we are all Anglophobes....did the poster not express empathy towards English people by saying "I felt so sorry for these decent English folks with their kids."?

Your point is correct that the thugs are a minority (though you will find that the % of thugs amongst English fans is above the average) and that, of course, does not mean that all English people are the same.

However, in the immediate aftermath of events like those described by Natchessmen above, peoples' opinions are often formulated through emotion and not through their normal calculated manner. If a bunch of , say Belgian supporters acted in the same way the poster might have had the same irrational reaction and concluded that all Belgian supporters were like that. Its a natural reaction that is hopefully replaced soon after when emotions subside and the events can be put in perspective.

But to construe this as Anglophobia hints that you might have some agenda on this matter which prevents you from seeing that the poster would probably have reacted in a similar manner had these events been carried out by supporters of any country whose record for hooliganism is so poor.

Ex Cathedra

Looking up Xeno on Word of the Day in that link, Blank, I get this:

After calling for peace in 61 languages and beseeching the world to end racism and xenophobia, the pope made a surprise announcement

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Now clearly that means El Papa thinks Xeno and Racism are different things, and is he ever wrong?

Pedant

> and is he ever wrong

You mean he's always fallible?

And another thing

It's Albufeira, though maybe last week it was Albufeara.

Note that this is one of the "e before i" exceptions, seems to me there are as many exceptions to this rule as there are conformities. :x

And another thing

> Note that this is one of the "e before i" exceptions, seems to me there are as many exceptions to this rule as there are conformities

I don't think that Johnny Foreigner's spellings adhere to that rule. Weird that...

Very good Ms Blank

:lol

Re: And another thing

NoelC

You really couldn't be further from the truth. I really resent you accusing me of racism (Anglophobia), be careful with words like that. My point, should you be interested, is that the families were truly ashamed by the thugs the night before. They did not ask if I think that all Englanders are thugs. The answer to that question is a definite NO!! Do others think this ... to a degree and under the circumstances I think that was likely, small-minded people world over will focus on the minority and make assumptions. Certainly after that unsavory event the continent’s tabloids would lead the people of Europe to believe they were all animals. I agree my “I declined to answer” might be open to interpretation so let me be clear…I have spent the majority of my working life in England and find the English to be a fair, open and decent people. I shared a story about thugs who let their country down, and by God we have a few of them too.

Interesting you chose the IRA analogy; I lived in UK for during the nasty days of the late 80’s early 90’s. Don’t lecture me on how we were perceived in the UK back then. Silence befalling a room as I entered on a post-bomb day, of course they were suspicious who could blame them.

I hope that clears that little one up!!