AIB AIB failure to advise us of our interest options - entitled to redress?

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by Culainn, 5 Mar 2019.

  1. elacsaplau

    elacsaplau Frequent Poster

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    This is not my understanding (as confirmed by to me by the office of the Ombudsman).

    For long term products, you can make a complaint to the Ombudsman within any of the following limits:
    • 6 years from the date of the conduct concerned
    • 3 years from the date on which you became aware, or ought reasonably to have become aware, of the conduct concerned
    • Where it appears to the Ombudsman that there are reasonable grounds for a longer period and that it would be just and equitable in the circumstances to extend the time limit
    This is provided for in the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland (Amendment) Act 2017.
     
  2. RedOnion

    RedOnion Frequent Poster

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    Absolutely correct @elacsaplau

    You do know the meaning of the word 'likely'?

    Based on the facts we know, you might actually help the OP by pointing out the 'reasonable grounds' that might help the FSPO decide he has jurisdiction to look at the case? (I can only assume that's the piece you were referring to, since you just copied and pasted without adding anything).
     
  3. elacsaplau

    elacsaplau Frequent Poster

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    Actually, wrong again, RedOnion! In the case I was involved in, the "3 years" criteria was acceptable to the Ombudsman. :oops:

    It would be very poor if the OP was led to believe that he is likely to be statute barred when there is specific statute to accommodate his grievance.

    I could explain why "likely" is incorrect also but I suspect that there is little point!!?
     
  4. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    I can enthusiastically agree with you in that regard.
     
  5. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    My tuppence worth.

    Possibly try and find someone who had an aib fixed rate ending around the same time and see if they have any documentation that you can then say would have been what you would have received.

    If you bought a new house, then some of the neighbors may be of help or possibly a your solicitor may know of others who took aib fixed mortgage with same wording and see if they will talk to you

    Then if you can show that other customers in similar situations chose a tracker you have the basis of an excellent argument.

    Remember,, if it works out its worth a lot of money.
     
  6. elacsaplau

    elacsaplau Frequent Poster

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    Nice one Sarenco - I feel like I've been Geoffrey Howed. :eek:
     
    Sarenco likes this.
  7. Culainn

    Culainn New Member

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    Thank you all for your comments . The debate on the CPC leaves me a bit confused .
    But I do believe there has been a breach of contract by AIB not notifying me of our interest rate options.
    There was no reference or suggestion of the possibility of a tracker option in the offer letter but that is the kernel of my case : AIB had a tracker option at the time and I believe I would have become aware of this if they had advised me of my options, as they had undertaken to do ,and I would have chosen the tracker option , as any sensible person would have done in the circumstances ,
     
  8. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    That certainly appears to be the case and that's the complaint I would pursue with the Ombudsman if I was in your position.

    Keep it simple.
     
  9. Culainn

    Culainn New Member

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    P.s Peemac’s suggestion is very good . Not sure how I can do it but will certainly try
    Re the Obudsman , I have lodged an appeal but they now tell me they have to do a jurisdiction analysis as they cannot adjudicate where there is a legal dispute . AIB have lodged legal proceedings for default in repayments , which would not have occurred if I had been on a tracker .
    How is that for a hoist on someone elses’s petard ?
    I await the Ombudsman’s deliberation .
     
  10. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Hi Culainn

    I had not heard of a jurisdiction analysis before. Is that their wording?

    You cannot take legal action against the lender and go to the Ombudsman on the same issue.

    But you can go to the Ombudsman on one issue, if the lender is taking legal action on a separate issue.

    There might be a difficult for the Ombudsman if you are defending the legal proceedings on the basis that you should have been on a tracker.

    A lot of legal proceedings for possession were adjourned as they were subject to the tracker examination.

    Brendan
     
  11. Culainn

    Culainn New Member

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    I don’t have the exact wording to hand but that is the essence of what they wrote.
    We are defending on the basis of entitlement to a tracker and lack of clarity from AIB on their paperwork. This has led to several deferrals by AIB.
    My main query was on our entitlement to the offer of a tracker. It appears to me that there has been a breach of contract and that if that breach had not occurred I would have had the option of a tracker , which I would have taken up . QED
     
  12. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    Having gone through the ombudsman back in 2012 on the tracker (and failed), they very much look at black and white and never of what "could have been".
    As your mortgage document does not say you would be offered a tracker rate you will have to show that such offer of tracker was made to others with similar loan to you. Without that AIB will win as you must remember that 30% of all legal fees paid in this country are paid by the financial sector, so they will have at their beck and call the best legal advice in the country.

    I would do my utmost to find at least two similar fixed rate loans where an offer of a tracker was made at the end of the fixed rate and then pay a specialist advisor to draft your ombudsman complaint.

    If you found a customer who had offer of a tracker after the fixed rate ended and who had no promise of a tracker in their mortgage document and who took the tacker, then you'd have an extremely strong case.
     
  13. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Hi Culainn

    Lenders tend not to take legal action unless there are serious arrears and the borrower is paying nothing or not engaging.

    If you had a tracker would it have made much difference? How much were you paying?

    Brendan
     
  14. Culainn

    Culainn New Member

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    Hi Brendan.
    Fair observation.
    I have engaged at all times and continue to pay interest plus c 3k per annum
    The loan period expired and the balance became due . We requested their calculation of the debt , which we have not received, and raised the tracker issue, which they have dismissed - hence the appeal to the Ombudsman. They have set dates for several court hearings but keep deferring when the date approaches.
    I don't have a financial background but if I apply the ECB tracker rates over the period I estimate that there should be a refund of c. €100k
    C
     
  15. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    What is the balance on the loan?
    Was it in arrears before the loan period expired?
    What is the value of the property?

    Unfortunately, you would have had a better chance of a successful outcome with the Ombudsman. The Judge is unlikely to uphold such a claim.

    It's certainly a card to play in discussions with AIB but if you could negotiate some deal, that would be a lot better.

    Brendan
     
  16. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    That may be over estimated as if the loan repayment date has passed it would suggest that the mortgage was taken out in the mid 90's.

    Example If it was originally a 500k mortgage, then the interest payments from 2008 to 2018 would be circa 75-80k assuming a 4% average rate in the period. At a 1.5% tracker, the interest charge would have been 40-45k. So best case scenario on that example is 40k overpayment.

    The loan period expiring also suggests that your mortgage is from the 90's, before the word "tracker" existed. So it may very well be loose strings you are pulling at hoping that a 90's mortgage that was fixed for a while in the 2000's would have an entitlement to a tracker rate.

    I'd hold very little hope for such a case unless the info is dramatically different to my assumptions
     
  17. Culainn

    Culainn New Member

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    Peemac,
    the loan was for c 600k in c 2006.