Advice on planning

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porky12

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Hi there, I am trying to sell a derelict site off my land. A couple who were interested applied to demolish the old house and rebuild a new dwelling, however
they were refused. I have been told that if I were to rebuild on the footprint of the old house with a view to rebuilding to the spec of the type of house
the council want, keeping as much to the orignal as possible with room for an extension at the back I would stand a better chance as the planning
authorities look upon this more favourably. Can you tell me if this couple were to apply how can they be sure the building is structually sound to build on
for example can a structual engineer suggest new foundations if its not safe but still building the type of house the council want??
Assuming all is in order and they go for outline pp, can I then ask for payment if this is granted???
 
porky12 said:
A couple who were interested applied to demolish the old house and rebuild a new dwelling, however they were refused.
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I didn’t think it was possible to apply for planning permission on a property you didn’t own. Have they agreed to buy it subject to planning permission?

You have the option to sell the site as it is with the derelict house. You could also apply for outline planning permission yourself to build a replacement house and, if granted, this will significantly increase the value of the property you’re seeking to sell. If you go this route, you’ll have to involve an architect and they could advise on what the council would be likely to approve.

While you could of course involve the couple in the design of the new house before looking for permission, you must remember they may not ultimately buy the property. You could be left with approval for a house they designed but which would not appeal to many other prospective buyers.
 
Many thanks for that sound advice, the couple will definately need to look into the type of house the council want them to build
with input from them also as to what they would like or are allowed, I am sure there will be give and take on both sides.
In this case the couple will be designing the house in conjunction with the council themselves.
They are just worried that if they go to draw up plans and spend the money can they be sure that the structural engineer
will say that it is not structurally sound to build on and they can put down new foundations??
Personally I think this is their main worry, I have done some research and was told by an architect that the main thing is
they draw up their plans first and submit the application, down the road if the structural engineer condems the existing
foundations all he has to put in his report is that he advises new foundations and generally that is fine.
There is a new development plan due to be instigated in the last quarter of this year and it is imperative that they
make their application soon in case the new plan wont allow for a restoration should as this.

If the couple decline the offer to submit plans then your idea of myself applying for outline planning is a good
idea and I appreciate your smart thinking, this certainly is worth bearing in mind.

Can I just ask if this couple do go for plannin, outline or full at what stage can I ask for the funds to be
transferred should they be granted permission?? For example if they go for outline and get it would I
be wrong to ask them for funds at that stage or would i be entitled to ask, can anything go wrong further
on down the line when they apply for full pp and I would be asked for the money back??
I suppose a contract would need to be drawn up legally and then there would be no comeback??

A huge thanks for all your advice, this is weighing on my mind, I want to sell the site and get it sorted.
I thank you so much once again.
 
"Conservation Architect" - Two words to strike terror into the heart of anyone who isn't a multi-millionaire several times over!

If the job does indeed need a conservation architect, walk away. Their normal customer is either a public body (cost no object when spending taxpayers' money) or corporate clients in need of a prestige trophy building.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem like a conservation architect would be required - it's hardly a protected structure?
 
no its not a protected structure, i reckon a structural engineer is all that is needed.
On the question of online planning - if its granted can funds then be exchanged???
 
porky12 said:
On the question of online planning - if its granted can funds then be exchanged???
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This is up to you to agree with the potential buyer, but expect the price to reflect the risk they're taking.

You can sell them a field. Or a site 'subject to planning', but then the money only changes hands when planning is granted. Or anything else you agree on.

Re planning advice / approach, you need to talk to a local architect or planner. Depending on where you live, outline planning might be completely worthless - like where I live as section 47 applies, nobody here bothers with it.
 
porky12 said:
On the question of online planning - if its granted can funds then be exchanged???
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It all depends on the agreement you have with the buyers. They could buy it now or they could wait until you have planning permission.

If they agree to buy it now without any planning permission it wouldn’t be worth as much as if you had planning permission. The amount you could expect to receive therefore would be less because they’re taking the risk that they might never get planning permission.

If planning permission (even outline) is secured before the sale goes through, the risk to any purchaser is significantly reduced so they can expect to pay significantly more.

From what you’re describing, they’re not willing to buy unless some sort of planning permission is achieved. At that point, the value of your site would be significantly more valuable than it is today and the price they pay should be greater to reflect this. At that stage, you’d be selling a site for building rather than just a plot of land.

The amount they should pay and the point at which they should pay is a matter for agreement between you and them. This should ideally be a written contract to avoid any misunderstanding. Even if you know them well and you trust each other, you’re probably better off to get your own solicitor and for them to get a separate one.
 
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so many thanks for all your replies and good advice. Is it right to say therefore that even if they apply for outline pp and this
is granted it wouldnt be safe to take the funds until full planning comes through just to be sure??
I have agreed a price with the clients subject to planning and as you rightly say outline pp is really a waste of time, to
expediate the matter full planning should be persued. The clients are nervous about submitting plans in case the structural
engineer condems the existing foundations but I have been told that this isnt such a big issue and if the structural engineer
writes in his report that new foundations will be needed all is well as at that stage hopefully the clients will have
achieved the main planning and the foundations are just a formality forby the expense to the clients themselves.
 
If I were buying subject to planning permission, I wouldn’t part with a cent until permission was formally granted. I doubt the couple would either.

Whether they’d be willing to pay on receipt of just outline permission is a matter for them. Presumably you’d be willing to receive the money at any time!
 
Yes you are probably correct, I just wasnt sure what the correct procedure was.
Now I have a new problem that has just cropped up, this clients parents live directly next door to the site
and as far as they are concerned their daughter has a right to it (which of course isnt correct).
A price has been given to the client to think about but the clients father is up in arms saying that
even though they really want the site they (her father is helping her to buy it) think the price is
too much (its not believe me, its the going rate). He told my husband that if we sold it to anyone
else he would make sure no one ever got planning on it as it was promised to his daughter (hello!!!!)
I for one never promised it to her, I would like her to have it but at its value, I am not in the business
of giving things away.
What advice can you give me??
I am afraid now that if I offer it to someone else and they apply for planning he would put objections
in to stop everything??
Frustrated and very annoyed to say the least.
 
You’re entitled to ask what you like. They’re entitled to offer what they like. If you can’t agree on a price, there’s no deal.

Assuming the site is legally yours you can sell it to anyone. If they’re claiming title, that’s another matter.

If they’re intimidating you into selling for less than the market value, this is a whole different matter that you may need to seek legal advice on.

Anyone can object to a planning application but that doesn’t mean that permission will be refused. Any objections have to have merit.

It doesn’t seem like it’s going to be a very pleasant process on several levels. Do you really want to sell it at all?
 
Yes I do i want to sell it and yes it certainly is a very unpleasant situation to be in. I have thought about legal advice okay
as I know its my own property and I am fully entitled to ask what I like. There is no intimidation as such as regards selling
for less, these people have shed loads of money, its not a problem for them, its simply "we want it but we are not prepared
to pay the market value". They want to make me feel like I am extorting money from them, making me feel guilty and in turn
lower the price, believe you me thats not going to happen.
Is it true that you need a certain number of objections to stop the whole process??
I will just give them an ultimatim, give me what I want or forget it altogether and I move on and take my chances over
what kind of trouble this man may cause. It will be a struggle perhaps and may get dirty but legally I am fully within
my rights and I wont be walked over, surely any court in the land would be on my side.
I would rather they just agreed the price and got on with applying for planning, no payment until planning is granted,
I think I am been very fair here.
 
The number of objections wouldn’t matter. It’s whether an objection has any real merit to justify refusal.
 
I would advise you to apply for planning permission yourself before selling the plot. Then you will have a more sellable plot that will hopefully appeal to more buyers than just your neighbours' daughter. If she still wants to buy the plot with planning permission she will have to pay the market value or else someone else will come along and buy it. By that stage those neighbours will not be in a position to do anything but accept the situation. I don't like their attitude that their daughter is entitled to the plot and that they will submit all manner of objections if someone else buys it and seeks planning permission and all this would make me reluctant to sell to them unless you think it would be difficult to find other prospective buyers.

Of course they may submit objections to your own planning application but as Salvadore says these objections would need to have merit and if your application has all bases covered I don't see why you would be refused permission to build. On the subject of building would it be possible to build a steel frame construction inside the walls of the old building and just use it as a facade? That way you wouldn't need to demolish it or possibly reinforce its foundations. I've seen this done on old stone cottages and it retains the character but provides a stable framework on which to build.

Good luck with all.
 
Alexa, thank you so very much for all your good advice. Yes Alexa I do agree with you in all you say.
I am awaiting an offer from the clients today, my husband spoke to the clients father on Friday and although
I give the client the price I was looking he insisted that it wouldnt happen but that they would come up
with a fair price that they think its worth which of course I wont be accepting.
These people want the site but dont want to pay, they want to dicate the price themselves, in other words
they want to be the seller and the buyer.

I am thinking as you said yourself that if we cannot agree on the price, I myself apply for permission and take
what comes, I dont want trouble but this guy really is a law onto himself. I will have to face whatever
objections I am faced with and please god it wont have an effect on my chances of getting this over the line.
The idea of the steel is a great idea and I will definately take it on board.

I do have another client who would give me the price I want in the morning subject to planning, he lived
on the same road and when he got married moved to a different area but would love to return.
Problem is will this guy want to take on with all this hassle and risk his own mum and dad falling out
with people they have lived close to for many years. I guess I could offer it to him but I am hesitant

Any more advice you could give me would be very welcome.
 
It now transpires that this client has told me they are still interested but not at that price so I have told them that that is
fine but I will not be back with any other offer in the future.
They got their chance as I always promised them. I have another person who would be very interested but I still have
to approach, whether they would be interested in taking it on or not I dont know as the previous clients father may
be a big stumbling block as regards objections to a planning application but as you say Alexa and Salvadore unless they
can be merited as a good reason they could be thrown out.
What do you think???
Failing all this I have it in mind to apply for planning myself and take my chances.
 
Don’t complicate matters. Sell to the highest bidder.

You’ve given the guy an opportunity to buy at a certain price and he’s refused.

There’s no point speculating on what he may or may do as a consequence. It’s outside of your control.

Fortunately you have an alternative buyer. Proceed with that and see what happens.
 
I don't suppose he was stupid enough to put any of his threats in an email or text. If he did, just tell him that you'll forward them to the planning department.
 
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