Advice needed- Being chased for €8k residual debt

[TartanTrews]

I am a UK resident. Bought property in 2003 in Dublin. Lived in Ireland until 2010. Moved back to UK in 2010. Ulster Bank refused to let me sell the house for around €10k under the total amont outstanding on mortgage in 2014. Lead to protracted and unproductive discussions with them about how I could sell house, etc. They sold mortgage to Capital in 2016 and I engaged with Captia but they wanted full costs. Ended up agreeing to hand over house to receiver in 2016. Never heard anything at all from receiver but house was sold in 2017 with a residue debt of €15kish (some questionable additions appeared on thestatement I received about empting property and maintenance, etc). Since then the deby has been sold to another firm each year and they all send letters to me (In UK) but I have never acknowledged or responded. Even the one that said due to an error and my debt has now decreased to €8k

Now I have letters saying that they are passing it to legal to go for a judgement order.

My question is would anyone really come after me in UK for €8k? Are judgements in Ireland easily enforced in Scotland? And any advice on what should I do?

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

You are not going to get help on this forum about how to avoid paying your debts.

Otherwise I have no knowledge but the UK is clearly the most common destination for debtors who have left Ireland. It's easier to chase people too as the language is the same and legal system very similar.

 

[TartanTrews]

You are not going to get help on this forum about how to avoid paying your debts.

Otherwise I have no knowledge but the UK is clearly the most common destination for debtors who have left Ireland. It's easier to chase people too as the language is the same and legal system very similar.

Sorry you see it as avoiding paying my debts. There wasn't any opportunity for me to challenge any of the additional debit put on to my mortage so I don't know if they are actually 'my debts'.

I was looking for advice from someone who may be in similar situation to me re banks & subsequent dealings with other companies.

Thanks for taking the time to be helpful.

 

[noproblem]

You didn't acknowledge any correspondence, did a runner, now questioning if someone will attempt to get their money back? Hopefully they will, and as Ulster were part of Westminster group your credit rating in GB will be evident. Why aren't you corresponding with the people looking for their money back? Are they not the very people you need to talk to about paying the money back?

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

There wasn't any opportunity for me to challenge any of the additional debit put on to my mortage so I don't know if they are actually 'my debts'.

But you say you agreed to hand the house to the receiver in 2016 and you made no mention of any debt write off:

Ended up agreeing to hand over house to receiver in 2016. Never heard anything at all from receiver but house was sold in 2017 with a residue debt of €15kish

So yes they are your debts.

 

[elcato]

You say you have not engaged with any of them for five years so maybe you can argue statute barred at some point. The problem is they have you're UK address somehow so they may turn up at your door. As regards a judgement, I don't know but it is usually a bluff to get a response from the debtor. Have you checked your credit rating in the UK ? See what is on it. I would only engage if and when I am ready to thrash out a deal which means I would have a few bob to pay them to put an end to it. Doesn't really answer you question though.

 

[cremeegg]

You are not going to get help on this forum about how to avoid paying your debts.

The OP asked two simple questions, and he is as entitled to have the relevant information as any one else. We have no idea how he came to be in this situation and it is really none of our business.

My question is would anyone really come after me in UK for €8k? Are judgements in Ireland easily enforced in Scotland? And any advice on what should I do?

To take the second question first. Where a creditor obtains a judgement in an English court they can engage an Irish lawyer to apply to the Irish court to have that English judgement endorsed by the Irish court. So while the English judgement has no effect in Ireland, it is a relatively easy matter to get a Irish judgment on the back of an English one. I presume the same process applies in reverse and in Scotland.

It would appear from your post that UB have not obtained a judgement in Ireland yet.

I do not know if claiming that the debt was statute barred would succeed.

As you have received correspondence claiming different amounts, do you have a defence against the €8k being claimed.

Wether they would go after you to Scotland for €8k probably depends more on the creditors policy. Some have a policy of pursuing everything, some do not spend more than the cost of postage. The amount is large enough to be worth engaging solicitors but they have to balance that against the likelihood of getting paid even if successful.

I would suggest that your best course of action is to do nothing unless/until you receive a court summons. It costs them very little to write to you and probably very little to send a solicitors letter, (debt collectors get bulk discount or sometimes employ their own solicitors). However if they go to the cost of issuing proceedings they will probably keep going until they get a judgement.

Two further points, I am not legally qualified and if you owe the money perhaps you should pay it.

 

[TartanTrews]

The OP asked two simple questions, and he is as entitled to have the relevant information as any one else. We have no idea how he came to be in this situation and it is really none of our business.



To take the second question first. Where a creditor obtains a judgement in an English court they can engage an Irish lawyer to apply to the Irish court to have that English judgement endorsed by the Irish court. So while the English judgement has no effect in Ireland, it is a relatively easy matter to get a Irish judgment on the back of an English one. I presume the same process applies in reverse and in Scotland.

It would appear from your post that UB have not obtained a judgement in Ireland yet.

I do not know if claiming that the debt was statute barred would succeed.

As you have received correspondence claiming different amounts, do you have a defence against the €8k being claimed.

Wether they would go after you to Scotland for €8k probably depends more on the creditors policy. Some have a policy of pursuing everything, some do not spend more than the cost of postage. The amount is large enough to be worth engaging solicitors but they have to balance that against the likelihood of getting paid even if successful.

I would suggest that your best course of action is to do nothing unless/until you receive a court summons. It costs them very little to write to you and probably very little to send a solicitors letter, (debt collectors get bulk discount or sometimes employ their own solicitors). However if they go to the cost of issuing proceedings they will probably keep going until they get a judgement.

Two further points, I am not legally qualified and if you owe the money perhaps you should pay it.

Thank you cremeegg. the latest correspondence is telling me they have passed my file to their legal dept and they will be 'issuing a formal letter of Demand with associate instructions to institute Judgement proceedings'.

Just to clarify the creditor at the moment is not UB but vulture fund no.5.

For the judgy people- I didn't leave Ireland because of not being able to pay my mortgage & I tried to work with UB and then Capita (who bought the mortgage from UB when I no longer had a job to pay the mortage and fell into arrears) to find a resolution. But having no job and not being able to pay everything back in full wasn't something they were interested in.

In fact mortgage debt owed to UB was approx €260k. House sold for €290k. But after reciever added on all charges I was left with a residual debt of approx €15k.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Ulster Bank refused to let me sell the house for around €10k under the total amont outstanding on mortgage in 2014.

Tough one.

First of all, the lender can't stop you from selling the house and paying off your mortgage in full.

They can refuse to consent to the sale, if you are not proposing to clear the mortgage.

But most people assume that if the house is sold , they no longer owe the shortfall.

It doesn't sound as if you lost out here? You wanted to sell the house at a €10k shortfall. I presume you agreed to pay that. It is now €15k. So I am not sure why you don't want to pay it.

Brendan

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Never heard anything at all from receiver but house was sold in 2017 with a residue debt of €15kish (some questionable additions appeared on thestatement I received about empting property and maintenance, etc).

When you say "questionable" did you actually question them?

If the lender/fund is looking for more than they should, you can dispute the amount and offer them a figure. They will probably take it.

If they don't, you can always complain to the Financial Ombudsman about maladministration on your account. But if you avoided engaging with the lender for years, he would probably take that into account.

Brendan