68 year old gets PIA involving tracker rate for life

The simplest solution here is for the state to pay his mortgage payments in full.

And the payments would become a second mortgage due to the state.

Or for simplicity, replace it with an interest roll up mortgage at 5% a year.

Brendan
 
skrooge said:
The State gets away with not providing a service it should and bank customers pay a higher price then they should have to.
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So, its your contention that this cases and other PIA rulings is causing bank customers to pay higher price for financial services from banks ?

That's some claim.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
So, its your contention that this cases and other PIA rulings is causing bank customers to pay higher price for financial services from banks ?

That's some claim.
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You remember what happened over the last 15 years?? The small matter of the financial crisis?? Have you seen the numbers on people in long term arrears. Giving people time to get back on their feet is one thing but if 15 years later you still can't afford to live in your property I think the games up. Dragging this out doesn't do anyone any good.

In other countries you're expected to pay your loan or they take the collateral. That's why mortgage rates are lower than credit card rates.

Timely enforcement of leading contracts just doesn't happen here in Ireland. If banks can't realise the collateral then the borrower faces higher rates.

Let such an environment fester and foreign banks just leave.

To claim otherwise suggests a lack of understanding of the facts
 
skrooge said:
Let's not forget 68 is not that old in the greater scheme of thing. I'm sure age action would happily point out many are in great health.
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Most 68 YOs are not in any employment. This man seems wholly reliant on the state pension. He almost certainly has no chance to earn more. I wouldn't recommend this solution for a 38YO of course but the man's age is highly material.

I am very much in favour of creditors' rights but it has its limits. Forcing a house move on a 68YO has the potential to be detrimental to mental and maybe physical health even.

You forget that there is a residual value for the bank that it has to maximise too. Giving the man a 50% equity stake means he has a big incentive to maintain it as there will be something to leave to his heirs. This will work out better for the bank than a house that falls down around its occupants.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Paul

It's a very valid claim.

The banks claim that the higher mortgage rates are caused by their very high mortgage losses and their requirement to keep higher capital than is required in other countries.

Brendan
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"The banks claim " where is the evidence of this, I'm not saying that mortgage non payments doesn't effect banks profits but look at the profits they are making, look at the deals they are making buy loan books from UB and KBC .

The remaining banks in this country are profitable on a operational level have been for year's so I genuinely do not believe that high interest rates etc are caused solely by defaulting mortgages or in this case a PIA judgement to allow someone continue to live in their home.

Have banks ever reduced their mortgage rates when the made huge profits, no they haven't.

Sorry but unless the evidence to support this claim is published its simply an opinion.
 
And I wouldn't be suggesting this for all pensioners but the elephant in the room is the €100k he would have access to. Now I appreciate with inflation this doesn't go as far as it use to but it is a substantial bank balance.
 
skrooge said:
You remember what happened over the last 15 years?? The small matter of the financial crisis?? Have you seen the numbers on people in long term arrears. Giving people time to get back on their feet is one thing but if 15 years later you still can't afford to live in your property I think the games up. Dragging this out doesn't do anyone any good.

In other countries you're expected to pay your loan or they take the collateral. That's why mortgage rates are lower than credit card rates.

Timely enforcement of leading contracts just doesn't happen here in Ireland. If banks can't realise the collateral then the borrower faces higher rates.

Let such an environment fester and foreign banks just leave.

To claim otherwise suggests a lack of understanding of the facts
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Please don't patronize.

We also have been giving the banks plenty of assistance via taxpayers funds and allowing them survive they were all bankrupt, and I know we need a banking sector but what good has all these bailouts achieved.

The banks are operating profitably for years now, and I doubt this person will cause anymore hardship to anyone else.
 
Wow where to begin.

Paul O Mahoney said:
"The banks claim " where is the evidence of this, I'm not saying that mortgage non payments doesn't effect banks profits but look at the profits they are making, look at the deals they are making buy loan books from UB and KBC .
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I'm not sure of your point here? Why do you think 2 banks would rather shutdown than continue to lend here?

Paul O Mahoney said:
The remaining banks in this country are profitable on a operational level have been for year's so I genuinely do not believe that high interest rates etc are caused solely by defaulting mortgages or in this case a PIA judgement to allow someone continue to live in their home.
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In order to get to that profitable stage they had to undergo some serious surgery. 1/8 mortgage holders fell into arrears. They needed huge amounts of public money so they could write down those mortgages and sell them off. You can't just cherry pick the post crises years and ignore what had to happen before to get them back to profitability. Even then when you look at their return on assets the returns are pretty small.

Paul O Mahoney said:
Have banks ever reduced their mortgage rates when the made huge profits, no they haven't.
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Rates have been falling in recent years....

Paul O Mahoney said:
Sorry but unless the evidence to support this claim is published its simply an opinion.
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On the capital claim the evidence is there.

Paul O Mahoney said:
The banks are operating profitably for years now, and I doubt this person will cause anymore hardship to anyone else.
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I have nothing against the man but this case is symptomatic of an ongoing issue. There are over 5,000 households that are a decade behind in their mortgages that's just crazy.


It shouldn't never have been allowed to get to this. Off the wall solutions like the one suggested in the PIA is not the answer.
 
skrooge said:
And I wouldn't be suggesting this for all pensioners but the elephant in the room is the €100k he would have access to. Now I appreciate with inflation this doesn't go as far as it use to but it is a substantial bank balance.
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It's not a bank balance - it's equity in a house!

As the old saying goes: "you can't eat a house".
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
The article doesn't make clear, but it is an interest only tracker mortgage.

A contributory state pension is about €1100 a month. €93 a month is not very much compared to his income and his heirs will still get an inheritance as the debt won't grow.

He would probably pay a bit more as a share of income on a local authority differential rent scheme......
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Astonishing, given that differential rent still underprices rents here so extensively.
 
Dublinbay12 said:
Banks are literally paying to sweep this under the carpet.

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I would imagine this is down to long delays in getting cases to court. There have been cases in the past year where the borrower stopped paying around 2007, before the changes in rules around arrears management, so there must be either an enormous backlog of cases, or else there is a lot of issues getting in the way of long term remediation.
 
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