€3Billion for AIB - coming from the pension reserve fund?

Z

z107

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Does anyone know where the €3Billion for AIB is coming from?
Are they raiding our pensions for it?

45:00 minutes in.
 
Pension fund.
No. The pension fund only ever had enough to cover some of the cost of the Public Sector pension schemes. Even if the fund was not raided the PS pensions are another time bomb waiting to happen, as the number of Public Sector employees has risen dramatically since it was started from the Eircom privatisation etc. If you want a pension you are better off providing one for your self, long term many people will be happy for the investment properties, which they now see as a mill stone around their neck.
 
What's happening to my PRSI contributions? - where are they ending up?
 
Towger said:
long term many people will be happy for the investment properties, which they now see as a mill stone around their neck.
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...assuming property prices recover and you don't end up paying, for example, 500k in interest & capital over 20 years in return for a 100k property at the end of it....
 
29300 million for for Anglo

For the love of god

Maybe up 35 thousand million.......

WTF

Who has been hung drawn and qaurtered????

Who has even had a slap on the wrist?????

Both heads of AIB on the way out, will there huge golden handshakes for them?????


35 thousand million, feel so guilty now about trying to buy a place to live apparently all to do with our own greed right.
 
Which is where?

I just want to know if it's my PRSI contributions, meant for my state pension, that is being given to AIB.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Which is where?

I just want to know if it's my PRSI contributions, meant for my state pension, that is being given to AIB.
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No they are not. The PRSI fund is used to pay social welfare and state pensions as always. The National Pensions Reserve Fund is being used for AIB.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Which is where?

I just want to know if it's my PRSI contributions, meant for my state pension, that is being given to AIB.
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Would that be any worse than your income taxes being given to them?

Before you jump in, the answer is no, as there is no real segregation of PRSI contributions from regular income taxation receipts.

There are no ringfenced pots of money just general receipts and general outgoings.

They should stop the charade that payment of health levies, income levies and PRSI is any different from an income tax.

In addition the Nation Pensions Reserve is no different from the excess money borrowed to fund us through until next year, in a matter of months we will see that these funds will be indiscriminately used to pay for AIB, Anglo, the Public Sector Salaries, Social Welfare, Old age Pensions, the roads, etc
 
DerKaiser said:
They should stop the charade that payment of health levies, income levies and PRSI is any different from an income tax.
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Hear hear. What I wouldn't give to live in a democracy where the government treated me like an adult.
 
If we merge income tax and social insurance, then how do we determine eligibilty for social protection benefits?
 
I just checked the NPRF web site (www.nprf.ie) and it says this:
The National Pensions Reserve Fund was established in April 2001 to meet as much as possible of the costs of Ireland's social welfare and public service pensions from 2025 onwards when these costs are projected to increase dramatically due to the ageing of the population.
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It says 'Ireland's social welfare and public service pensions.'

So just to be clear, this doesn't mean my state contributory pension?

I also realise that my taxes are being ill-spent, but I thought at the very least I'd get some kind of pension.
 
DerKaiser said:
They should stop the charade that payment of health levies, income levies and PRSI is any different from an income tax.
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If you have even been at a meeting with all of them in the one room. About the only thing which upsets all 3 is calling PRSI / Levies tax and using tax as a general term to describe, well tax!
 
Protocol said:
If we merge income tax and social insurance, then how do we determine eligibilty for social protection benefits?
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What difference does it make?? They all go into the same pot and Finance dishes the money out as required. The UHC is supposed to do away with the different PRSI Class (A/S/C/D/H/E etc I think there is another unpublished class for older politicians) entitlements.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I just checked the NPRF web site () and it says this:

It says 'Ireland's social welfare and public service pensions.'

So just to be clear, this doesn't mean my state contributory pension?
Click to expand...

It does.

State pensions = SW pensions

Two types = contributory PRSI, and non-contributory means-tested.
 
It does make a difference.

Paying tax does not entitle you to anything.

Paying PRSI does - it is an insurance payment, not a tax.


Most countries have social insurance, there is a rationale for them, there is a reason for them.
 
Appendix B: Commission on Taxation & McCarthy Reports PRSI Sections
Commission on Taxation
The interface between the tax and social welfare systems​

3.1 The pay related social insurance (PRSI) system
​

3.1.4 PRSI – social insurance or a tax?​


The question of whether PRSI is a social insurance or a tax has been considered on a
number of occasions. The previous Commission on Taxation concluded that social
insurance is a form of taxation and that social insurance contributions should be
replaced with a social security tax assessed and collected on the same basis as income
tax. The Commission on Social Welfare (1986) took issue with the categorisation of
social insurance as a tax and regarded the system of social insurance contributions as
having a significant insurance dimension, which is not outweighed by the absence of
an actuarial link between benefits and contributions.

We consider that, on one hand, PRSI can be regarded as an insurance arrangement.
The purpose of any social insurance system is to fund a range of social welfare
benefits to workers and their dependants. A social assistance system is also operated
to assist people without adequate insurance entitlement. By making PRSI
contributions, workers obtain entitlements to benefits. While it is a fact that the
benefits will not vary by reference to the quantum of contributions made, the system
is designed as an insurance-type scheme that provides benefits to those who make
contributions.

On the other hand, the fact that there is no direct correlation between contributions
made and entitlement to benefits under the system suggests that it does not have all
the hallmarks of an insurance scheme. Those who pay higher contributions do not
have an entitlement to correspondingly higher benefits. While it may be appropriate
that those on higher incomes should make higher contributions in the context of
fairness, it could be argued this may be more a feature of a tax system than an
insurance arrangement. Our general conclusion was that PRSI has some
characteristics of a tax and therefore that the contribution side should be examined by
us.

We therefore examined PRSI to the extent that it has an impact on our terms of
reference. We note the complexity of the PRSI system and its wide scope covering
both benefits and contributions. Our consideration of PRSI is not intended to be
comprehensive and such a consideration is, in any event, outside our terms of
reference. We confined our examination to the contributions side of PRSI and to
examining anomalies within various categories of contributors. This is the aspect of
PRSI that is in the nature of a tax. It became very clear, however, during our
examination that the overall PRSI system is complex, unwieldy and contains
significant anomalies. We consider that there should be a separate comprehensive
consideration of the PRSI system.​
 
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