F
Freddie Kruger
Guest
What's the difference between a Chartered Accountant and a Certified Public Accountant?
Key Post: Difference between chartered, certified and CIMA?
Z
zag
Guest
Re: Beancounters
Hmm,
Very little, as far as I remember.
They are both qualified to perform many of the important tasks which businesses need, such as auditing and preparing accounts.
In the old days I think Chartered were qualified to perform certain tasks which Certified weren't, but this is not the case now.
At the end of the day it boils down to the professional body to which they belong. Certified belong to the Institue of Certified Accountants while Chartered belong to the Institute of Chartered Accountants. Having said that, the two bodies are allied in some way as far as I remember.
z
Hmm,
Very little, as far as I remember.
They are both qualified to perform many of the important tasks which businesses need, such as auditing and preparing accounts.
In the old days I think Chartered were qualified to perform certain tasks which Certified weren't, but this is not the case now.
At the end of the day it boils down to the professional body to which they belong. Certified belong to the Institue of Certified Accountants while Chartered belong to the Institute of Chartered Accountants. Having said that, the two bodies are allied in some way as far as I remember.
z
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,144
Re: Accountants
There are four main institutes operating in Ireland
The Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland ( ACA)
The Chartered Association of Certified Accountants ( ACCA )
The Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (ACMA)
The Institute of Certified Public Accountants ( CPA )
DIFFERENCES
The ACMAs do not work in public practice - i.e. they are not authorised to do audits under the companies acts.
The CPA is purely an Irish institute. The other 3 are parts of very large internationally recognized and <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> accepted<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> bodies.
The cream of the business graduates each year are recruited by the Top 5 accountancy practices ( PwC, Deloitte & Touche, KPMG, Ernst & Young and Andersens).
It might be self perpetuating, but ACA is the largest in terms of membership.
If you get the membership directories of the 4 institutes and compare the jobs which the members hold, there is just no comparison. Most of the top financial jobs are held by chartered accountants.
Brendan
There are four main institutes operating in Ireland
The Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland ( ACA)
The Chartered Association of Certified Accountants ( ACCA )
The Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (ACMA)
The Institute of Certified Public Accountants ( CPA )
DIFFERENCES
The ACMAs do not work in public practice - i.e. they are not authorised to do audits under the companies acts.
The CPA is purely an Irish institute. The other 3 are parts of very large internationally recognized and <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> accepted<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> bodies.
The cream of the business graduates each year are recruited by the Top 5 accountancy practices ( PwC, Deloitte & Touche, KPMG, Ernst & Young and Andersens).
It might be self perpetuating, but ACA is the largest in terms of membership.
If you get the membership directories of the 4 institutes and compare the jobs which the members hold, there is just no comparison. Most of the top financial jobs are held by chartered accountants.
Brendan
K
kinsale
Guest
Accountants
On the same subject
Who carries out the annual Audit on accountants ?
Kinsale
On the same subject
Who carries out the annual Audit on accountants ?
Kinsale
T
Tommy
Guest
Re: Accountants
Hi Kinsale
Accountancy practices don't normally need an annual audit of their finanical statements in the same way as companies and some other bodies do in order to comply with statutory requirements e.g. the Companies Acts, as accountants are not allowed practice under a corporate identity - they must trade in their own names so to speak. The same goes for several other professions such as doctors, lawyers etc. I presume the reason is historical and probably related at some stage to fears that a professional operating under the guise of a limited company might seek to evade some of their professional responsibilities by availing of "limited liability" (meaning that they couldn't be sued in their own names for corporate wrongdoing) if things went wrong.
That said, practising members of the main accountancy institutes are subject to rigorous "quality reviews" on an ongoing basis by their own Institutes. This usually involves a thorough review of the accountant's compliance with procedures, ethical guidelines, legal requirements etc.
Hi Kinsale
Accountancy practices don't normally need an annual audit of their finanical statements in the same way as companies and some other bodies do in order to comply with statutory requirements e.g. the Companies Acts, as accountants are not allowed practice under a corporate identity - they must trade in their own names so to speak. The same goes for several other professions such as doctors, lawyers etc. I presume the reason is historical and probably related at some stage to fears that a professional operating under the guise of a limited company might seek to evade some of their professional responsibilities by availing of "limited liability" (meaning that they couldn't be sued in their own names for corporate wrongdoing) if things went wrong.
That said, practising members of the main accountancy institutes are subject to rigorous "quality reviews" on an ongoing basis by their own Institutes. This usually involves a thorough review of the accountant's compliance with procedures, ethical guidelines, legal requirements etc.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,144
Re: Accountants
Hi Kinsale
Just to add to Tommy's answer.
Most people think an audit is done on behalf of the Revenue. It is not.
An audit is a report to the owners i.e. shareholders of the company that the accounts give a true and fair view of the financial affairs of the company. This is easy to understand in a public company. For example, I am a shareholder in AIB. The auditors report to me that the accounts prepared by the board are true and fair.
It is a bit meaningless in smaller, owner managed companies. The directors and the shareholders are one and the same.
So it would be meaningless for an auditor to report to a self employed accountant because what he would be saying is "the accounts which you prepared are true and fair"
Brendan
Hi Kinsale
Just to add to Tommy's answer.
Most people think an audit is done on behalf of the Revenue. It is not.
An audit is a report to the owners i.e. shareholders of the company that the accounts give a true and fair view of the financial affairs of the company. This is easy to understand in a public company. For example, I am a shareholder in AIB. The auditors report to me that the accounts prepared by the board are true and fair.
It is a bit meaningless in smaller, owner managed companies. The directors and the shareholders are one and the same.
So it would be meaningless for an auditor to report to a self employed accountant because what he would be saying is "the accounts which you prepared are true and fair"
Brendan
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,144
designatory letters
The letters in brackers are the correct designatory letters of the various Institutes.
The correct letters for members of CIMA are ACMA and
FCMA.
So the correct title would be
John Delboy ACMA
It would be incorrect to say John Delboy CIMA.
Brendan
The letters in brackers are the correct designatory letters of the various Institutes.
The correct letters for members of CIMA are ACMA and
FCMA.
So the correct title would be
John Delboy ACMA
It would be incorrect to say John Delboy CIMA.
Brendan
F
Fatman
Guest
.
Talking about accountants ...... what should an audit by a firm of chartered accountants cost for a small business cost.
Turn over £200K ...... 5 employees .... simple audit plus returns to tax office and companies office (ltd co)
I started up last year and had my audit done by a local accountant without getting a quote beforehand.
I got a bill for £2200 plus VAT.
I estimate he had max 2 days work on my books .... seems like a rip off to me.
Any thoughts
Talking about accountants ...... what should an audit by a firm of chartered accountants cost for a small business cost.
Turn over £200K ...... 5 employees .... simple audit plus returns to tax office and companies office (ltd co)
I started up last year and had my audit done by a local accountant without getting a quote beforehand.
I got a bill for £2200 plus VAT.
I estimate he had max 2 days work on my books .... seems like a rip off to me.
Any thoughts
S
Slim man
Guest
How much should an audit cost ?
Hey Fatman
There is exemption from audit for small businesses - but I think that the turnover must be less than IR£100k. Check this out in case I am wrong.
Did the accountant spend two days at your premises ? If so, he probably did a lot more work at his office.
Did he advise you on setting up the business ? Have you been getting his advice on other issues throughout the year ?
Most professionals charge a fee per hour and make a note of the time spent. So if he spends an hour talking to you on the phone, he will note that in his diary and charge it to you with the bill at the end of the year.
Ask him for a breakdown. It should be x hours at a certain rate per hour. At £100 per hour, that would be 3 days work.
Hey Fatman
There is exemption from audit for small businesses - but I think that the turnover must be less than IR£100k. Check this out in case I am wrong.
Did the accountant spend two days at your premises ? If so, he probably did a lot more work at his office.
Did he advise you on setting up the business ? Have you been getting his advice on other issues throughout the year ?
Most professionals charge a fee per hour and make a note of the time spent. So if he spends an hour talking to you on the phone, he will note that in his diary and charge it to you with the bill at the end of the year.
Ask him for a breakdown. It should be x hours at a certain rate per hour. At £100 per hour, that would be 3 days work.
G
garrettod
Guest
Re: How much should an audit cost ?
I've seen numerous charges for audits in recent years and yours does not appear all that different to other charges I would have seen.
Nonetheless, it depends on what work has been done. I would also recommend you ask for a breakdown.
I think moral of the story is price around (& don't tell your auditors your doing so, until you have decided
)
I've seen numerous charges for audits in recent years and yours does not appear all that different to other charges I would have seen.
Nonetheless, it depends on what work has been done. I would also recommend you ask for a breakdown.
I think moral of the story is price around (& don't tell your auditors your doing so, until you have decided
)
T
Tubbs
Guest
designatory letters
Fatman,
You may qualify for small company audit exemption provided the company's turnover is less than 317k(euro). So you can prepare the accounts. There are also several other qualifying factors such as the type of company you are, The number of employees and the value of the company's assets. If you contact the company's office at www.cro.ie they can provide you with a booklet that specifies these factors. Also you should be aware that banks etc may still require you provide audited accounts. You should also be aware that your accountant does work outside just preparing the books and the bill that you are paying does not sound too excessive in my view but I suppose you are more aware of whats in your books.
Fatman,
You may qualify for small company audit exemption provided the company's turnover is less than 317k(euro). So you can prepare the accounts. There are also several other qualifying factors such as the type of company you are, The number of employees and the value of the company's assets. If you contact the company's office at www.cro.ie they can provide you with a booklet that specifies these factors. Also you should be aware that banks etc may still require you provide audited accounts. You should also be aware that your accountant does work outside just preparing the books and the bill that you are paying does not sound too excessive in my view but I suppose you are more aware of whats in your books.
B
Bear
Guest
Re: >>Difference between chartered, certified and CIMA?
In relation to the four accountancy bodies, although the CPA is an Irish Body, the CPA qualification is recognised as equivalent to those of other statutory bodies in the EU and the qualification is included in the EC Directive on the recognition of professional qualifications - the Mutual Recognition Directive (89/48/EEC).
As an independent body, the affairs are controlled from Ireland, but ‘CPA’ is the most popular international designation for professional accountants and is recognised worldwide with members working in over 28 countries worldwide.
In relation to the four accountancy bodies, although the CPA is an Irish Body, the CPA qualification is recognised as equivalent to those of other statutory bodies in the EU and the qualification is included in the EC Directive on the recognition of professional qualifications - the Mutual Recognition Directive (89/48/EEC).
As an independent body, the affairs are controlled from Ireland, but ‘CPA’ is the most popular international designation for professional accountants and is recognised worldwide with members working in over 28 countries worldwide.
Re: >>Difference between chartered, certified and CIMA?
I am a qualified CPA (exams etc) but when living in the UK was asked continously was it the american qualification
Tried explaining that it was similar to ACCA but was always asked are ACCA not in Ireland
Using the
Mutual Recognition Directive
I applied for membership of ACCA and was granted it )as long as I paid the subs etc)
So for anyone who picks up on the snobbery between institutes there is next to no difference
That said I always respscted ACA's compared to the others due to the difficulties of their exam structure and crappy training wages
[email protected]
I am a qualified CPA (exams etc) but when living in the UK was asked continously was it the american qualification
Tried explaining that it was similar to ACCA but was always asked are ACCA not in Ireland
Using the
Mutual Recognition Directive
I applied for membership of ACCA and was granted it )as long as I paid the subs etc)
So for anyone who picks up on the snobbery between institutes there is next to no difference
That said I always respscted ACA's compared to the others due to the difficulties of their exam structure and crappy training wages
[email protected]