from sub-prime to prime lending - how long?

casper

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we have a mortgage with start mortgages since december 2007 due to my partners poor credit history.
the repayments are really high with interest rate of 9%.
our mortgage is 2100/month over 40 years for mortgage of 270000.
how long do we need to stay with start mortgages before applying to a prime lender? Halifax said 2 years - would this be the norm with most banks.
All loans have been paid off in full.

Thanks.
 
Hi Casper. Most banks say 1.5-2 years. IIB have come out and said that they won't refinance from a subprime lender!.. How bad is your partners credit history? What happened
 
He had a couple of loans taken out to pay for a handheld computer and a camera each worth about 500 euro with HFC bank and missed a few payments in sucession.
we both have good salaries and it's so frustrating that most of our money is going on a mortgage.
in the back of my head, i knew it was about 1.5 years but i guess i was just hoping!
 
You are struggling with your mortgage repayments and you took out a loan for a handheld comp and camera??? At this rate, you won't get out of your subprime mortgage.
 
This isn't going to be popular....

my advice is to sell the house immediately - even if this means taking a small loss now.

you are locked into 40 years of debt slavery (make no mistake, that's what this extortionate mortgage is - over 3/4 of a million in interest). If you need to take out a 40 year mortgage, you cannot afford to buy.

Rent until your financial situation improves and your credit rating gets back to a healthy status. Good luck with this.
 
You are struggling with your mortgage repayments and you took out a loan for a handheld comp and camera??? At this rate, you won't get out of your subprime mortgage.

Those loans have to pre-date or the mortgage, or they would have been able to get normal mortgage....


op , as the orignal loans were so small it wouldn't hurt and doesn't cost anything to get a bank to look at your case....
 
my bad. Misread the first post. I wouldn't sell if I were you. If you can manage 24 months repayments, you're back on track with a prime lender.
 
I know this is sub-prime so one would expect it to be expensive, but €2100pm/40 years is over €1m on a €270k property!!!

That is not only insane it is also absolutely corrupt as hell. I cannot believe that this is legal and it is certainly immoral. I am genuinely shocked as I didn't know this kind of thing was happening.

I'm with Kemo Sabe OP. I would just get the hell away from the whole thing as soon as possible and start again. Even if you can get a better mortgage deal at some point, I still think it's going to be a terrible, terrible price to pay to "own" a home.
 
Treehouse, there's a clear choice for the banks:
1. Don't lend to poor risks
2. Allow for poor risks in everyones rate
3. Charge poor risks a risk margin (sub Prime)

3 is clearly better than 1 in theory as it offers poorer risks an option (in practice it creates a bigger problem of not protecting people from their own poor judgement!)
3 is vastly superior to 2 in my opinion as I don't want to pay the same premium for risk of default as somone with a poor credit history i.e. I don't want to subsidise people who have been less reliable with past credit

Personally I would not pay 5% above the going rate of interest I'd wait a couple of years till my credit history cleared, maybe taking out a few smaller loans in the interim and ensuring I paid them off.

If I was the OP I'd look for a guarantee of how long before I reverted to prime rates. If there's no guarantee that would be within a year or two I feel there's no option but to sell up and stop paying interest rates requiring 6% growth in property values p.a. to break even
 
The subprime model is based around clients "repairing" their credit. These lenders offer you a chance, screw it up - tough. Having said that I have a lot of reservations regarding these loans also. However, I believe dishonest brokers and "financial advisors" are pulling the wool over clients eyes with respect to these products. I have worked in a brokers where most "advisors" were not qualified and their sole ambition was commission, not best advice. The Sup-prime/broker market is a complicated one and I have a lot of opinions on it. PM me if anyone want to voice their view.
 
He had a couple of loans taken out to pay for a handheld computer and a camera each worth about 500 euro with HFC bank and missed a few payments in sucession.
we both have good salaries and it's so frustrating that most of our money is going on a mortgage.
in the back of my head, i knew it was about 1.5 years but i guess i was just hoping!


Hi Casper
Go to a good broker. He/she may be able to get you back with the mainstream earlier. You would have had a better chance say 6 -8 months ago when lending was more favourable. But If the credit history has only a minor blip. You may still be able to get the deal done? I have come across situations where this has been done before
 
Casper, There is no chance of you going back to a prime bank for at least 12 months. The interest rate of 9% is indicative of how bad your credit actually is and I wouldn't waste your time inquiring. Head down, meet your loan obligations, review in December. J
 
Treehouse, there's a clear choice for the banks:
1. Don't lend to poor risks
2. Allow for poor risks in everyones rate
3. Charge poor risks a risk margin (sub Prime)

3 is clearly better than 1 in theory as it offers poorer risks an option (in practice it creates a bigger problem of not protecting people from their own poor judgement!)
3 is vastly superior to 2 in my opinion as I don't want to pay the same premium for risk of default as somone with a poor credit history i.e. I don't want to subsidise people who have been less reliable with past credit

Personally I would not pay 5% above the going rate of interest I'd wait a couple of years till my credit history cleared, maybe taking out a few smaller loans in the interim and ensuring I paid them off.

If I was the OP I'd look for a guarantee of how long before I reverted to prime rates. If there's no guarantee that would be within a year or two I feel there's no option but to sell up and stop paying interest rates requiring 6% growth in property values p.a. to break even


Kaiser,

I suppose you are right about the financial gymnastics required to sustain the current pricing levels. But there is a much simpler answer to the conundrum: allowing house prices to fall so that absurdities like paying €1m for a €270k property no longer occur. No?
 
DerKaiser, are you a broker? There is not one prime lender who will look at a 7month subprime mortgage. A clear picture needs to be painted here. I am looking at a Start pricing matrix from December and can tell you now that 9% is not the result of one or two discrepancies. So, like I say Casper, you really need to keep focused on making at least 12 months repayments, try your best not to take out additional borrowings and then once you've built up the track record, speak to an experienced broker and start planning your route back to the mainstream lenders. And, I'm sorry Kaiser, but they are the facts and it's a harsh reality.
 
I suppose you are right about the financial gymnastics required to sustain the current pricing levels. But there is a much simpler answer to the conundrum: allowing house prices to fall so that absurdities like paying €1m for a €270k property no longer occur. No?

No - the problem here has nothing to do with property prices. The OP got into the situation of requiring subprime BEFORE seeking a mortgage. The original cause was 2 loans for €500, not a €270k mortgage.

There will always be people who struggle regardless of house price levels.

Plus this €1m figure is irrelevant - does ANYONE remain at a subprime lender for the entire duration of a mortgage?
 
This isn't going to be popular....

my advice is to sell the house immediately - even if this means taking a small loss now.

you are locked into 40 years of debt slavery (make no mistake, that's what this extortionate mortgage is - over 3/4 of a million in interest). If you need to take out a 40 year mortgage, you cannot afford to buy.

Rent until your financial situation improves and your credit rating gets back to a healthy status. Good luck with this.

This is the only sound advise give here. What would you rent a similar property for. I would expect that it would be 1000-1200 at most. You would could save 900-1100 every month. After 3-4 years your credit would be restored and you would have a good deposit saved.
 
Sorry for being blunt about all of this but it doesn't stack up to be paying over €200 interest per month above the going rate for a few missed payments on a €1,000 loan.

I agree with Jonathan that a 9% interest rate should not be the result of something so trivial. If Casper is being honest about the reasoning behind the 9% rate then she should revisit the broker as it doesn't stack up. If there are more serious elements to the poor credit history then I see Jonathan's point that Casper is unlikely to have her case reviewed so soon
 
Thanks Kaiser. I wouldn't say the broker effected that loan offer, but I would questions whether or not he shopped around, as Start's rates were not the most competitive at that time (especially now). Whilst I understand that client may have not had much control over the circumstances leading to missed payments, I find I must be straight down the line with them as financial discipline is key................................................................................................................................................................. "Moving back from ‘sub-prime’ to ‘prime’ – how easily is this done? When taking out a mortgage with a sub-prime lender, most clients intend only to use their mortgage facility to ‘repair’ their credit rating. Where clients may have slipped up in the past on loan/mortgage repayments or they could not directly prove their income to mainstream lenders, they would have no other choice than to apply for a “sub-prime” home loan. It would have been the intention of every broker and client alike, that after, 24 months or so, the sub-prime mortgage would be refinanced back through a ‘prime’ lending institution like PTSB, Haven, Bank of Scotland, etc. However, there are conditions that must be adhered to before considering the switch back. 1. A sub-prime mortgage offers clients an opportunity to rebuild their repayment capacity and ultimately, repair their credit history. Therefore it is paramount that each and every monthly repayment for such is made on time, every time. A case with a full 24 months of repayments will appeal to the prime banks. 2. If the purpose of choosing a sub-prime mortgage was due to the client being self-employed and not having a minimum of two years audited accounts then it is important that they liaise with an accountant in order to get the correct advice and begin working towards managing their business accounts. This will result in being able to produce the necessary minimum of 2 years audited accounts a prime bank will require before allowing you to switch back. 3. There are several other reasons as to why one would opt for a sub-prime mortgage, amongst them being – not having the correct work/residency permits or buying out the council’s interest in one’s property. Again for these circumstances, it is a matter of keeping a clean profile with the new mortgage, not over borrowing on short term debt and attaining the correct requirements for the prime lenders. The importance of having strict control over your personal finances cannot be overstated. The sub-prime mortgage offers you a route back to a mainstream lender and only by keeping your finances in order can you look to benefit from this. Bearing in mind the higher interest rates charged by these lenders, a broker will look to move their clients back at the first recognisable instance. The sooner this can be addressed and completed, the sooner a client’s interest rate will drop resulting in lower mortgage repayments."
 
Hi Casper,

I work in a mortgage environment and have alot of experience with sub prime lending. I would hope your broker explained the "true" cost of this and that you subsequently budgeted accordingly. Lenders price based on risk and if you make a mistake the options are very limited. The current market conditions don't help either.
There are other non-conforming/subprime lenders out there who may be able to offer you a better rate for the next 12-18 month which may assist with your issue. Speak to a broker about them, they are NUA homeloans, Springboard Mortgages (which is a subsidiary of PTSB) and Stepstone. Only consider this if your record with START has been clean i.e you have made all payments on time or within the month they were due.

I am assuming your mortgage is a repayment or annuity mortgage? If this is the case I would speak to START about the possibility of converting to interest only until your 2 years are up as this will lessen the burden slightly. If they refuse after you have made this known, talk to the financial regulators office as UK legislation through the FSA deems this as inappropriate practice and they take a really dim view. The Irish Regulator is beginning to take strides in the same direction as the FSA so they may be able to help if needs be. Please note though this should be a short term solution only until you are in either a stronger financial position or a position to re-mortgage to a prime lender.
If you've maintained the payments up to now keep the faith whatever you do and keep doing so, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Avoid extra borrowings and most importantly if you are really struggling, talk to START at the earliest opportunity, if you are proactive they have to consider any request.
 
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