Is 'no satellite dish clause' unfair/illegal?

M

Mick31

Registered User
Messages
42
Hi everyone,

how does this clause fit within law, and what is the actual law governing this matter? Is it fair that developers who are in much stronger bargaining position insert this as a clause to a potential buyer who does not have an opportunity to negotiate?

The European Union states that any individual who wishes to install a satellite dish should have the right to do so. The Commission specifically set out the idea of individuals right to use a satellite dish in its Communication, that stems from the Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights as interpreted by the European Court on Human Rights in Strasbourg. The Court of Justice itself stated in its decision against Belgian city regulations that the free provision of services prevents the application of a tax on satellite dishes, as such a tax is liable to dissuade residents seeking access to television broadcasts from other Member States.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62000J0017:EN:HTML


Also, the exercise of this right may not be obstructed by rules which are too onerous and which would restrict an individual all the broadcasts of their choice, or even more so, by a general ban, an unjustified refusal , or refusal on aesthetic grounds. The following is the link of EU Communication:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressRelease...format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en


Is the ban on satellite dishes in direct contavention with the aforementioned rights and rulings from the European Court on Human Rights?
 
There is a clause in the private estate I'm on stating that satellite dishes are not allowed, yet nearly everyone (incl. myself) has one. I think it must be safe to ignore, for the most part.
 
One presumes though that a management company could force you to take down a satellite dish if they so wished? (provided you had signed an agreement stating that it was not allowed).
 
Yeah, most contracts for the apartments come with that clause. I have a dish too, but recently received a letter to take it down.

If contracts in Ireland have that clause, does that mean that the EU Communication and rulings of EU courts are worthless documents, or does it mean that what Irish developers are doing in terms of satellite dish restriction is illegal by EU standards?
 
Our management company takes them down within 2 weeks of them sending out a letter giving 7 days notice. This is pursued aggressively, without exception. Our development has a certain style and dishes negatively impact the "look" and potentially the value of the properties in the development. AFAIK, when you sign the deeds at purchase you waive your right to a dish.

Bottom line is if you want a dish, don't buy in a development that doesn't allow them.
 
shesells said:
Bottom line is if you want a dish, don't buy in a development that doesn't allow them.
Click to expand...
Or do and then get actively involved in the management company to see if you can change the relevant rule (not sure how feasible this is as it may involve varying the terms & conditions of existing lease agreements or covenants!).
 
Ours requires consent of 70% of all owners to change the conditions of the development in the leases and deeds (not just 70 % of all owners present). Given that AGMS have averaged 10-15% then it's not very likely!
 
The Court of Justice itself stated in its decision against Belgian city regulations that the free provision of services prevents the application of a tax on satellite dishes, as such a tax is liable to dissuade residents seeking access to television broadcasts from other Member States.
Click to expand...

The ruling above applies to circumstances where you are allowed to erect a satellite dish, but must pay an extra fee or tax to do so. This does not happen in Ireland, so this ruling is irrelevant.

As a general rule, in Ireland, there are planning restrictions on the erection of satellite dishes on properties e.g not allowed on front of house or on the balcony/exterior of apartment blocks. The management companies are just enforcing these planning restrictions as the local authority will be after them and the occupiers if they do not enforce.
 
I wouldn't agree with you Shesells in terms of waiving your right. No contract is legally binding if contravenes human rights. I agree that satellite dishes do take away from style of development, but to restrict them and not provide for an alternative means of access to satellite is completely unfair. I agree that everyone signs a contract; for example I asked my solicitor to get the no dish clause out and was told I could lose the apartment and to save this for another day.
You do not even get to negotiate anything.

CSirl,
I do not know where you read that rulings above apply to circumstances where you are allowed erect a dish?! As it is, it talks about unfair discouraging by means of tax, or other kind of restriction that prevents an individual from receiving satellite signals from other member states.
 
You will have to convince the learned judges of the high court of the illegality of such contracts.
 
Would be good to see Local Authority enforcement as regards dishes installed on the front face of a dwelling as in this case, they do have a negative impact on the general aesthetics of the area.

As regards management company enforcement, in a lot of cases can this policy not be traced back to the developer doing deals with the likes of NTL, magnet,etc.?
 
serotoninsid said:
Would be good to see Local Authority enforcement as regards dishes installed on the front face of a dwelling as in this case, they do have a negative impact on the general aesthetics of the area.
Click to expand...
The LA's have not got the resources to chase those with dishes on the front of houses. They ain't got the time for something that will yield very poor results.

serotoninsid said:
As regards management company enforcement, in a lot of cases can this policy not be traced back to the developer doing deals with the likes of NTL, magnet,etc.?
Click to expand...
You are quite correct.
 
serotoninsid said:
Would be good to see Local Authority enforcement as regards dishes installed on the front face of a dwelling as in this case, they do have a negative impact on the general aesthetics of the area.

As regards management company enforcement, in a lot of cases can this policy not be traced back to the developer doing deals with the likes of NTL, magnet,etc.?
Click to expand...

I still go back to the basic notion of not buying somewhere that bans dishes if you really want one. Whatever the reason for the ban.

Dishes being banned here was actually a major attraction to this development for us, and several neighbours we've discussed this with agreed. I would fight tooth and nail to stop this ban being overturned in the unlikely event that enough other owners cared enough to actually attend meetings!
 
To the best of my knowledge if you live in an apartment you do not
own the exterior wall or the balcony, therefore the management company
is entitled to remove the dish.

I live in a detached house in an estate with a management company that
banns satellite dishes, I consulted my solicitor and he informed me the
ban in my case was not worth the paper it was written on as I had freehold
and the management company could not enter my property. This is the same
on all of the detached houses on the estate, none of the dishes have been removed
though the fact that all except a few houses have dishes may have something to do with it.

However the ban has been successfully implemented on the apartment block to the
rear of where I live.
 
theoneill said:
To the best of my knowledge if you live in an apartment you do not
own the exterior wall or the balcony, therefore the management company
is entitled to remove the dish.

I live in a detached house in an estate with a management company that
banns satellite dishes, I consulted my solicitor and he informed me the
ban in my case was not worth the paper it was written on as I had freehold
and the management company could not enter my property. This is the same
on all of the detached houses on the estate, none of the dishes have been removed
though the fact that all except a few houses have dishes may have something to do with it.

However the ban has been successfully implemented on the apartment block to the
rear of where I live.
Click to expand...

The voice of reason...that's exactly the reason. In an apartment you don't own the exterior, so you can't put things on something you don't own. Maybe sticking it on the couch pointing out the window is an option?!
 
theoneill said:
To the best of my knowledge if you live in an apartment you do not
own the exterior wall or the balcony, therefore the management company
is entitled to remove the dish.

I live in a detached house in an estate with a management company that
banns satellite dishes, I consulted my solicitor and he informed me the
ban in my case was not worth the paper it was written on as I had freehold
and the management company could not enter my property. This is the same
on all of the detached houses on the estate, none of the dishes have been removed
though the fact that all except a few houses have dishes may have something to do with it.

However the ban has been successfully implemented on the apartment block to the
rear of where I live.
Click to expand...

I take it this must be the case where I live as well. Nearly everyone has a dish now.
 
Yes, but it depends on how militant the residents are and if the management agent is proactive. Let's be honest, SKY is a hell of a lot better than NTL but satellite dishes are unsightly strewn across a complex. There is a balance to be struck. It's a pity developers don't explore the installation of a communal roof dish more often. I'm sure SKY would subsidise this in the same way cable and broadband companies do to get exclusivity.
 
Sylvester3 said:
I take it this must be the case where I live as well. Nearly everyone has a dish now.
Click to expand...
Same in our place. Privately managed townhouse development. I'd say that c. 25% of the houses have dishes or antennae in breach of the rules. The management agent (at the behest of the management company) circularised householders reminding them of the rules and saying that steps would be taken to remove such installations. Nothing happened and I can't see them doing anything. At this stage I'm half considering ignoring the rule myself to erect a dish. I'd prefer to have this at the back anyway but getting a signal there is non trivial.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top