Tenants leaving early 10mo/1year: Returning to Poland, how much of deposit to return?

Tenants are moving out of my property this week.

I got a phone call from them yesterday saying they are going back to Poland on sunday (giving me 5 days notice). They have been there for 10 months of a 1 year lease.

What I'd like to know is how much of the deposit should I be returning to them? Also how to I go about checking if the ESB and gas bills are paid off? If I ring the gas or ESB will they tell the landlord what the last reading was paid for by the tenants?

Would I be entitled to hold a couple of hundred euro until I can confirm that all bills are cleared?

Re: Tenants leaving early

You should hold the whole deposit.

If you are feeling charitable you can give them some or all back if you get a letting within the time frame required so as you are not out of pocket a month rent and after all bills are deemed clear.

Re: Tenants leaving early

When is their rent paid up until?
I would hold the deposit until all bills are confirmed as cleared.

Re: Tenants leaving early

monkeyboy said:

You should hold the whole deposit.

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I think this is a bit rough - if they were good tenants, bills clear and the place is in good condition. Sometimes moves are unavoidable - I'm sure plenty of Irish people throughout the years renting in UK/US have had to return to Ireland suddenly for whatever reason.

Re: Tenants leaving early

Good tenats or not they are gone and the OP has to start again.

As I said if you manage to get sorted quick enough to incur no costs, give them the deposit, but certainly hold it until the OP is safe from loss.
Also be sure the bills are coivered first.

The fact that they are not Irish in no way makes a difference, Its not a charity this guy is running ! 5 days notice is not on, why should the OP risk being out of pocket !

Re: Tenants leaving early

cheers everybody for the advise.
rent is paid up until 10th dec. I rang esb and gas bord. gas board told me that the meter was locked 1 month ago. total costs to get it unlocked is 180 euro. esb told me that once i had a forwarding address in poland for the tenants, and i switched the account over to my name with the current reading i would not be charged any extra.
What gets me most is the 5 days notice. I now have to advertise quickly and who is going to be looking to get into a property over christmas.

Re: Tenants leaving early

lyonsa3 said:

esb told me that once i had a forwarding address in poland for the tenants, and i switched the account over to my name with the current reading i would not be charged any extra

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does this mean the esb will start sending bills to poland looking for the outstanding money?

Re: Tenants leaving early

webtax said:

does this mean the esb will start sending bills to poland looking for the outstanding money?

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Don't know. Thats what I was told by esb.
When talking to esb I enquired about what would happen if any outstanding bills were unpaid and I was told that once the account was in there name (which it is) it will not fall back at our address. Was also assured this would have no knock on effects to future tenants.

Re: Tenants leaving early

I was told that once the account was in there name (which it is) it will not fall back at our address. Was also assured this would have no knock on effects to future tenants.

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In my experience this is not the case. You will NOT be liable but there will be a blackmark put on the property and the next tenant will have to pay a deposit...the size will depend on the amount that was outstanding. This can be a very big inconvience for a new tenant who may not be expecting to find this extra money and then hold onto a "slip" of paper (the reciept) for the next however many years. I had a tenant lost her reciept and had alot of difficultly getting her money back.

I would hold onto the deposit to ensure you don't end up out of pocket as they should be giving 30 days notice.....personally I'd refund it (or a portion) if you managed to get tenants before the end of the 30 days. However, don't forget to take damage into account first as that is what the deposit is really for.

Re: Tenants leaving early

I had a tenant that moved out this time last year (1st week in dec) with only a few days notice.
There was a few hundred quid owed to the ESB but the bill was in his name. It didn't affect the the next tenants at all.I switched the bill into my name for a few weeks (with a zero balance).
The guy moved back to the Ukraine so I'm not sure how the ESB managed to collect their money. Bord Gais insist on a deposit for rented properties so they never let him run up any debts.

Get your ad on daft now. I got lucky and got 2 Polish couples about a week before Christmas. I know it seems like a bad time of year - but I was surpised by the number of calls I got this time last year.

Re: Tenants leaving early

I'm interested in this locking of the gas, what does this mean? Do they not have any gas?

OP - bills not in your name are not your responsibility so you don't have to worry about those. If you have to 'unlock' the gas and pay for this unlocking I would deduct this from the deposit, plus any repairs, furthermore I would tell them you will forward the remainder of the deposit to them in Poland if you manage to let the property from the 10th December, less the costs of advertising and maybe something for the inconvenience (extra work involved for you, cleaning, vetting clients etc).

Re: Tenants leaving early

There is no such thing as a 1 year lease in law anymore as the PRTB legislation irrivoked the ability to have a lease for a specific period of time. There is by law an initial 6 months period followed by an automatic right to a total 4 year lease on certain grounds and conditions. Notice to leave is defined by length of stay and once correct notice is givin nothing you can do.

Re: Tenants leaving early

kkelliher said:

There is no such thing as a 1 year lease in law anymore as the PRTB legislation irrivoked the ability to have a lease for a specific period of time.

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Not correct, landlords and tenants can agree to a fixed term. However a landlord can only terminate a fixed term tenancy if the tenant does not comply with their obligations, they can't for example terminate because they are going to sell. In addition the tenant does accrue the rights of an open ended tenancy so they become protected under the Act.

There is by law an initial 6 months period followed by an automatic right to a total 4 year lease on certain grounds and conditions.

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correct-ish - After 6 months the landlord can only terminate the tenancy on certain defined grounds.

Notice to leave is defined by length of stay and once correct notice is givin nothing you can do.

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A lease can only be terminated (after 6 months) for certain reasons, it is not simply about the length of notice.

Re: Tenants leaving early

Stifster,

You can terminate as a landlord for a variety of reasons. The following is from the PRTB website:

Once a tenancy has lasted 6 months, the landlord will be able to terminate that tenancy during the following 3​

​

3
4​

- the tenant does not comply with the obligations of the
tenancy
- the dwelling is no longer suited to the occupants
accommodation needs (e.g. overcrowded)
- the landlord intends to sell the dwelling in the next 3 months
- the landlord requires the dwelling for own or family member occupation
- the landlord intends to refurbish the dwelling
- the landlord intends to change the business use of the​

dwelling.

The correct notice must also be given obviously.

Re: Tenants leaving early

I think if a tenant agrees to pay ESB by direct debit the bond/deposit is not required.

Re: Tenants leaving early

Bronte said:

furthermore I would tell them you will forward the remainder of the deposit to them in Poland if you manage to let the property from the 10th December, less the costs of advertising and maybe something for the inconvenience (extra work involved for you, cleaning, vetting clients etc).

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This makes no sense. Why would you deduct the cost of advertising, cleaning and vetting clients? You'd have to do the same thing in two months anyway! That's just unjustifiable greed.

Re: Tenants leaving early

Cityliving said:

Stifster,

You can terminate as a landlord for a variety of reasons. The following is from the PRTB website:

Once a tenancy has lasted 6 months, the landlord will be able to terminate that tenancy during the following 3​

1/2 years only if any of the following apply;​

3
4​

- the tenant does not comply with the obligations of the
tenancy
- the dwelling is no longer suited to the occupants
accommodation needs (e.g. overcrowded)
- the landlord intends to sell the dwelling in the next 3 months
- the landlord requires the dwelling for own or family member occupation
- the landlord intends to refurbish the dwelling
- the landlord intends to change the business use of the​

dwelling.

The correct notice must also be given obviously.

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I know, the implication of the post that i replied to was that you only had to give the correct notice. That is not correct.

Re: Tenants leaving early

ntab2 said:

This makes no sense. Why would you deduct the cost of advertising, cleaning and vetting clients? You'd have to do the same thing in two months anyway! That's just unjustifiable greed.

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I agree - it's this kind of attitude that gives landlords a bad name.

Yes, they broke the terms of the lease - but as mentioned it is quite possible the OP would be have been in the same position two months later anyway. If they were good tenants and the OP is not stung with any bills/repairs etc etc, I don't really think it's a big deal.

Of course it's a business not a charity but in other businesses there are bad debts/slow payers/difficult customers etc

...it happens.

Re: Tenants leaving early

Caveat said:

I agree - it's this kind of attitude that gives landlords a bad name.

Yes, they broke the terms of the lease - but as mentioned it is quite possible the OP would be have been in the same position two months later anyway. If they were good tenants and the OP is not stung with any bills/repairs etc etc, I don't really think it's a big deal.

Of course it's a business not a charity but in other businesses there are bad debts/slow payers/difficult customers etc

...it happens.

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totally agree, also while the OP states the tenants gave 5 days notice that is not correct, they actually gave 15 (december 10th next rent day) which still doesn't excuse them not giving the full notice, but it's not quite as bad as made out. i wonder if it's to do with the time of year rather than anything else that's annoying the OP.

Re: Tenants leaving early

dereko1969 said:

totally agree, also while the OP states the tenants gave 5 days notice that is not correct, they actually gave 15 (december 10th next rent day) which still doesn't excuse them not giving the full notice, but it's not quite as bad as made out. i wonder if it's to do with the time of year rather than anything else that's annoying the OP.

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I didn't even cop that - in fairness, that gives the landlord an advantage - ten days where the apartment is empty so he has time to fix it up for the new tenants and show it while it's empty. It's likely he could even rent it out early.

Sure it's not the full month but it's not five days notice either...