Key Post Attic Conversion.

This topic was originally posted by Aido:


Hi!

I'm living in a 3 bed-semi and would like to convert the attic for more space. Anybody out there got some practical experience/advice?

Is it a worthwhile investment?
Do you end you with a decent room?
How much does it cost approx ?

Thanks in adavnce!!!

Hi Aido,

Have done a fair bit of reading/investigation on this matter and the following sites/thread might be useful:-

www.theatticman.com
www.atticexpress.ie
ww.velux.ie
www.atticladders.com
Key post on attic ladders
[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]


I decided not to go ahead because when I spoke to a few people they had terrible problems afterwards with their heating and the positioning of their tanks.

If you are not very careful with the positioning of the new staircase also you might have problems with reselling as happened to a friend and the house can only be sold to cash buyers since.

You will need to position the windows at the back of the house if you want to avoid planning permission. You will also need in most cases to install steel girders if you cut into the joists.

I came to the conclusion that the best option was to get an architect to oversee the job which of course will add to the costs.

I have a comprehensive article which was printed in the Weekender supplement to the Irish Independent dated Saturday, 18th May, 2002 and you may be able to get same from their website.

They recommend for a list of qualified builders in your area who've carried out attic conversions contact the 'National Guild of Master Craftsmen Tel: 01-4732543.

Hope I have not rambled on too much and that the above is of some help.

Interested to hear how you get on.

it'll depend how suitable the attic is.get a builder or carpenter friend to take a quick look at it and see is it feasible or expensive first

Attic Conversion

Previous posts seem very sensible. One thing, before you finish the conversion, make sure that the rest of the house is sorted for electrical outlets, tv points, satellite connection etc, as once you finish the attic, it will be much harder to work on the house cables, as I found out.

Slim

loup
Unregistered User
Attic Conversions

Just want to know how to go about it (p.p etc.) and what companies are recommended. Thanks for any advice/help

Just wondering, my solicitor says I need to get a cert from them saying the conversion is exempt from pp and also complies to Building Regulations. Did you get such a cert? She says I may have problems re-selling without it?

nogser
Frequent poster
Re: Thanks

You will need that cert alright. I had to get one for some work I had done myself when I came to sell.

Nogser

Dowee
Very frequent poster
Re: Thanks

A neighbour said to me a while back that you don't need planning permission if the windows are to the back of the house, but if they're on the front then you do. I'm not 100% sure on this I'm just passing on what I was told.

kiwijbob
Unregistered User
conversions

Some attics do require PP, where the new space you are providing qualifies as a 'habitable room' (check building regs) it will require PP. If your new room is a 'habitable room' then you have to make other changes to your house to meet the fire regs. Most modern attics are so small they will never be a 'habitable room' and they will then be considered as 'storage space'. All windows to the attic other than Velux style roof lights to the rear will 110% require PP.

Advice - Get a reputable RIAI Architect involved before you do any work.

ajapale
Very frequent poster
attic conversion and fire regluations

I was speaking to an estate agent who was a bit wary of attic conversions.

He said that the building regulations stated that if the conversion constitutes a third floor then you must conform with the fire regulations.

Then again estate agents are not noted for being the most reliable of sources of information.

ajapale

LookAtMe
Fire Regulations re attic conv.

Another important point:

If a permanent stairs is installed, it will probably come under 'habitable space' regulations.

Fire regulations stipulate that there must be a means of emergency exit from the third floor (out of a window) This should be facing the road, or if not, there should be access to the rear for a fire engine.

All doors leading from the attic, down through the house, need to be fire doors that automatically close with special expanding strips.

I got my attic done for 14K. Great job - permanent stairs, velux windows,radiator, wooden celling, archetechs cert, etc.

Some other posts

oulu
Registered User
attic conversion

Just got a quote of 20000 for conversion to hipped roof, to much at the moment, but still need to get it done , ie 3semi house, 3 little girls just need extra space, I have seen it done in a neighbours house and it would be perfect for us, Willing Plumber and sparks in the family, so any tips/ hints would be appricated , the do,s and don,t and whatever, I am ok at DIY , But advised would be great cheers

paulocon
Registered User
Re: attic conversion

oulu,

Mind me asking who you got this quote from and what do you mean by a hipped roof.

Thinking of getting the same done myself though when we were building we got our roof with a high pitch with a view to a future conversion. Should have got it done when we were building. Ain't hindsight a wonderful thing!!
http://www.atticconversions.ie/HIPPED_ROOFS/HIPPED_ROOFS/Navigation.html
oulu
Registered User
Re: attic conversion

Paul,

It was 1 of the first I saw in the yellow pages, not sure try a few, some did not get back , sorry, I think it could be worth trying to get someone maybe who is retired , I mean there is no building really involved

Daithi
Registered User
Re: attic conversion

Did my attic conversion myself and am now looking for someone to put a stairs in for me.
If anyone has any websites etc of companies that do stairs for attics i'd be grateful.
I'm looking for a real stairs and not one of those silly folding stira efforts.
Thanks for the help

legend99
Very frequent poster

Did it come up here before that if you put in a permanent stairs that you are looking for trouble as your attic then needs to confirm to building regulations for a living space...such as having to have a proper emergency exit window and stuff??

Daithi
Registered User

It copmlies with all building regulations. Have the space for the stairs which i left til last as it has to come through a supporting wall. Now i just need a pro to install a stairs for me.


oulu
diy Attic con

Can I ask u what sort of money it cost u to do your attic, breakdown if possible Thanks

Daithi
Registered User
Re: diy Attic con

It cost us about €7000 altogether. Dont know what the stairs will cost though.

Attic already had velux windows but i dont see how that would add too much to the price if we had to buy and fit them.

8 inch joists, so no need for support for the floor. (i'm not sure if the minumum joist should be 6 inches or 8 though, maybe someone can tell me.)

Floor boards are expensive €1500 (we got Oak and fitted them ourselves but you could get much much cheaper flooring than that).

Heating - 2 electric storage heaters fitted (not by ESB) €800.

Window in gable wall - €2000.

Electrician and plasterer came to about €1500, but the attic was ready and empty with platerboard up for the plasterer so he got it all done in 2 days.

The rest was nick nacks such as doors for presses, paint, doors, Wood for stud walls, light fittings etc. You'ld be surprised what costs money. I cant even remember half of the stuff we had to fork out for.

all in all an enjoyable exoerience. but make sure if you do it yourself you make a gap wide enough to get furniture up. We nearly messed up there but for some good advice from a friend.

A bathroom would have added another €2000 - €3000 on to it, so we didnt bother.

I definitely dont see how anyone can justify €20K for an attic conversion. You'ld do well to steer clear.

Daithi
Registered User
Re: diy Attic con

Can i also suggest , to save people from being ripped off, that anyone who has got the pros to convert their attic, post the details of the attic and cost of it.
Then if they post how happy they were with the company people here can ask them for the contact details of the builder.

The reason i am suggesting this is that i had several so called pos up to give me a quote and didnt trust any of them, so i just left it and got a friend to help me do the conversion. While i had fun doing it its not for evryone though.

sueellen
Moderator
Re: attic conversion

I know quite a few friends who did not do their homework before going ahead and have had serious problems. One house needs cash buyer because loan approval cannot be obtained and another has serious heating problems because of siting of tanks/other heating problems.

One of the main reasons why your costs were low was that you did not need to make adjustments to the roof and have steel girders fitted and you have yet to get your stairs sorted.

oulu
Registered User
Re: attic conversion

Paul got this number from a guy at work who was very happy with the work he did Andy Cahill 0868375681/ 4520202 , Cost around 12,000 Euro hope this helps, Let me know how u get on Thanks I might give it a go myself like Daithi, I have the plumber, and sparks FOC so might be worth a try for the new year as I am not allowed start this side of Xmas, bring back the days when the man was boss.

Re: Recommendation for attic conversion

3 things to watch for in attic conversion

Ventilatation : Normally the roof space is ventilated through air coming through the small gap between the roof and the house walls. If you convert the attic this ventilation will be blocked off. You need to ensure that the converted attic is well ventilated.

Roof joist configuration : The roof joists are initially configured to hold up the roof. They will need to be removed / altered to convert the attic. This introduces the risk that the new configuration may not be strong enough to hold up the roof long term.

Strength of attic floor. Prior to conversion the function of the attic floor is primarily to be the ceiling for the upper level - the bedrooms. It does not have the load bearing capabilities of the bedroom floor - the ceiling of the ground floor. It will need to be substantially strengthed to bring it in line with the bedroom floor.

Finally a lending institution may not be prepared to give a mortgage to a prospective buyer because of the structural alterations which have taken place following conversion which could impact your ability to sell your house.

That's it.

Good luck.

Attic conversion

I'm living in a 3 bed semi with a hip roof. Anybody got experience who can advise if it's worth getting an attic conversion done?

Anybody gone the planning route to build the hip into a gable end or construct dormer windows into roof. I'm living in Fingal who I'm told are very difficult when it comes to planning.

Also, conversions seem to be getting cheaper in the local freesheets, whereas I would have expected the opposite with the SSIA spurge coming.

All comments/references welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Bo

Re: Attic conversion

Presently have my planning applied for with DCC - make sure that you get it passed as habitable accomodation - youre house then becomes a 4 bed its also safer for insurance purposes
check this link out [broken link removed]
all planning applications submitted since 02/05 are scanned in I'm sure fingal have something similar.
Pm me if you want further info ......

Re: Attic conversion

As a matter of interest...what kind of money are we talking?

Re: Attic conversion

I have a house with a hipp roof, soom guys in the area where doing 3 at the same time, looking for 23 K, did not have to take anything from other bedrooms, but built stairs in the landing, some price I think,

Builder, Nixer, Attic - Safe?

Hi. I am hoping some of you out there have faced a similar conundrum and may have advice.
I have got a great quote from a local builder (young enough lad) to convert our attic and add a small 10x10 extension to the back of the house. THe guy is a local and has done lots of work in the area which seems to be of a very good standard.
The thing is he will be doing our work ex VAT and the books.
I am concerned that I am exposing myself and home now to major risk if something goes wrong.
Specifically, he will not be supplying us with any certs of compliance for either job, said he does not want architects and engineers breathing down his neck. I think it's because his name might end up on a form somewhere and lead a papertrail back to him.
The main concern is with the attic - we have a 3 bed end of terrace with a hipped roof, with prefab trusses as most have these days. The builder proposes to take these out and build a supporting wall to support the roof. He has done it before and it worked out fine. I just want more assurance from someone qualified to know (structural eng, architect) that the roof won't fall down on us.
However, bringing in these people will antagonise the builder, and he may refuse the work. As you know, its hard getting builders, and I really want this work done. Plus he is exceelent value, and as I said has lots of satisfied customers in the area.
Has anyone any opinions or advice? Did anyone get any work done for which they did not receive a cert of compliance? Were you able to get one after the work was completed?
Thanks for reading.
--Brumajen--

Re: Builder, Nixer, Attic - Safe?

We got our attic converted a few months bck, the same story as you and got no cert of compliance. After the job was done we got an engineer in and he passed it no problem. Our builder had done other houses in our area ( which engineers had passed )and he was willing to show us them so i knew we'd be safe enough.

Re: Builder, Nixer, Attic - Safe?

Hi,

Welcome to AAM.

As I'm sure you are aware most people here on AAM don't approve of the nixer mentality and prefer to pay their due.

It sounds like you are heading for major problems going down this avenue as you will probably find it impossible to sell your house on, without the necessary documentation.

There is some discussion in this post about the problems that can arise in this type of situation.

I'm aware of two houses in our estate alone where both houses will always need to be sold to cash buyers because of the shoddy work done on attic conversions.

BTW hope the post does not appear to be lecturing you but would hate to see you left with a major problem on your hands if things go wrong.

Re: Builder, Nixer, Attic - Safe?

Attic conversions are risky business. I recently bought a place with an attic conversion, but the structural survey revealed significant damage to the roof caused by the builder cutting out trusses and not compensating with adequate support. Luckily we discovered this as it will cost approximately €25K to fix!

We told the vendors that if they were willing to drop the purchase price by an amount sufficient to fix the attic we would continue with the purchase, otherwise we would pull out. They got a second opinion which verified this, and agreed to drop the price.

I’d say they saved themselves a couple of thousand euro on getting a “cheap” job done on the attic, but it really cost them in the end.

It has really taught me not to scrimp on jobs such as these. A family friend who is also a very well recognised and professional builder will be fixing it for me, and I will be getting the same architect who discovered the original damage to check the work afterwards!

Re: Builder, Nixer, Attic - Safe?

In my experience its hard enough to get a builder whos official every step of the way to do a job right. What comeback do you have if he does a terrible job or stops half way through? Would you be covered by insurance if something happened to him, you or someone else onsite? How do you know he'll employ competent subcontractors? Will he be doing this in his spare time and how long will you be living on a building site while he gets around to finishing? Building regulations are there for good reasons, one of which is safety, how will you know the building meets safety regulations?

"he does not want architects and engineers breathing down his neck" !!! Of course he doesn't. This would make me very suspicious. This is you home you're talking about.

Re: Builder, Nixer, Attic - Safe?

Hi All, thanks for taking the time to reply.
PurpleAlien - it's reassuring to know that it is possible to get an engineer in after the work has been completed and that it can be certified (if up to scratch). Do you mind me asking what this costs?
Sueellen - point taken about nixers. To be honest, I didn't realise this was the case until we were fairly deep in with this guy, and had confirmed dates and staged payments etc. I just happened to ask had he included VAT on his quote, and that's when I found out that it was cash only. Thanks for pointing out the relevant posts, had been through them already and got some good advice. We have gotten some advice from another experienced carpenter on how to ensure he is doing things correct - structurally in the attic - so we will see if that's the case. Looking at what this type of work costs with the big, specialist firms, I know there is no way we could ever afford this. i hadn't even realised before embarking on this that lots (even most) builders you approach are looking for cash only jobs like this...
Stresshead - thanks for sharing your experience. I was already very wary of attic conversions and we will have to be extremely careful that our guy is doing a sound job. I have got in contact with an architect (friend of a friend) for more advice and perhaps they will come and check it out.

Legalities of Attic Conversions

Hello all. I'm hoping someone with prior experience can help me out here.

I am buying a house that has an attic conversion. The conversion includes a fixed stairs and a bathroom. As far as I know the vendor themselves is in the building trade and did it themselves. They have done a great job and it is a fantastic looking room. But, crucially, the work doesn't have a certificate of compliance.

I am aware that these type of conversions are usually classed as 'non-habitable' storage space for legal reasons and that in reality they are used for any number of means. But in this situation, where a fixed stairs/bathroom have been installed is it not tricky to insinuate that it is a 'non habitable' room.

I spoke with the co co planning dept. who gave me the official line about habitable attics needing planning permission etc and they told me that if it were an unsanctioned conversion the new owner (me!) would be liable for it's removal. They also told me that I could apply for retention but even my limited knowledge tells me that retention could be a costly venture...

I don't necessarily want it to be a bona fide conversion - I would be happy if it was officially & legally classified as a non-habitable storage area. I'm just not sure about having a limbo situation where the conversion is kinda-legal-but-not-really-but-you-should-be-ok...

I am worried that if I am having these concerns at this stage that if/when I go to sell-on these problems will still be there. There is also the possibility that the lender won't release funds for such a property..

I am pulling my hair out over this one (and I don't have much to spare!!)... since what initially appeared to be a nice addition to the property could be the biggest negative!!

I would love to hear from anyone who was in a similar situation to hear how they dealt with it.

Thanks

Re: Legalities of Attic Conversions

Don't buy it unless the seller gets it approved.