Form 11 or Form 12?

Bewildered123

Registered User
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Hi all,
New member here looking for some advice.
My dad passed away recently and I'm doing my mother's tax returns - never done anything like this before. She has a fear of computers so forget about ROS!

The situation is: she's in her 70s, in receipt of a Widows Pension + Occupational Pension (from my father) + Small UK state pension + ARF.

In theory, Form 12 should be the one she needs because the main part of her income is PAYE (Occ Pension + Widows Pension).

But the notes on the first page of Form 12 say that:
2. An individual with a PAYE source of income and with total gross income from all non-PAYE sources (including income subject to DIRT), of €30,000 or more is regarded as a ‘chargeable person’ for Self-Assessment and must file a Form 11 for that year.
My question:
Does this mean:
PAYE income + non-PAYE (up to 30k)
or
PAYE + Non PAYE = total less than 30k

3. An individual with a PAYE source of income and with net assessable non-PAYE income (including income subject to DIRT), of €5,000 or more is regarded as a ‘chargeable person’ for Self-Assessment and must file a Form 11 for that year
My question:
This seems to reduce the threshold from 2. above down from a gross of 30k to a net of 5k for non-PAYE income??????

Any help greatly appreciated!
 
If the non-PAYE gross income is 30k or more, then use Form 11.

The 5k refers to net profits, rather than gross income.

Example:

total trade income = 28k, with net profits of 4k = Form 12

total trade income = 38k, with net profits of 4k = Form 11



Note that the ARF income can be set up as a PAYE income.

I strongly suspect she should use Form 12.
 
Thanks for that information - that makes a lot more sense.
My mistake - I meant to include the ARF as a PAYE income source above.
I just did the calculations: UK pension + a small amount of bank interest brings her net profits to €5071.
So 71 euros over the 5k threshold for Form 12 - does that matter?
Or is it so close that they'd accept a form 12??
 
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